Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Water heaters in jeopardy?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Re: Water heaters in jeopardy?

    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
    Ditto Carl. The larger the shop... usually the less quality personnel. Every shop I've known with 5+ people usually had only 1 licensed person.

    Maybe different other places.

    J.C.
    Nope.
    Same here too.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Water heaters in jeopardy?

      Its the same with any profession. For example there are wonderful doctors and terrible doctors, just because someone's name says M.D. is no guarantee of competence.
      When I hire someone, I am picky. I am a DIYer also, so when I pay a Pro, I want a REAL PRO!
      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Water heaters in jeopardy?

        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
        What you have said, we hear almost constantly, you may not realise that, nor how belittling it is to hear the only reason homeowners have to hire plumbers is it's the law.

        Duck, I agree with you that for combustion appliances you should hire a plumber. I don't mean to belittle you. I think that even if it wasn't the law there would still be plenty of work for plumbers. There is plenty of work for auto mechanics, and you are allowed to work on your own car. I change my own oil in one of two cars, anything else I bring it in, but I do have the option of fixing or maintaining it myself.

        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
        Imagine if, every day, you had to listen to your customers tell you they were going to program their own software from online tutorials or free websites with pro's that walk them through it...how would you feel listening to that regularly?

        I have a software engineer who's a customer, he decided to do a flip two years ago and do the work himself that doesn't require a license.
        His house is partially done, he lives in the finished level, with the rest of the home being exposed insulated walls and a gas bill thats draining him dry.
        He says if he could go back he'd never have done it, he completely underestimated the scope of work, monetary prerequisites on stock & labor, difficulty level on labor as well as technical aspects, his credit is maxed and he's nowhere near done.

        In the end, he'd have paid substantially less if he'd used the highest bidding contractor on the original job.
        He's turned out to be somewhat of a friend, with an occasional social call.
        I debate the fact with him that he's learned alot the hard stuff and he might consider doing it again when the markets back up, his response - "NO!"

        Nothing personal CP, but for some reason it seems like engineers are the most common conveyors of the idea that plumbing is simple, of the engineers, it seems like software engineers do it the most.
        Maybe it's just my area, with so many software co's (Boston), but it's undeniable.
        There is a pretty large portion of software engineers out there who are self-trained via reading books and the Internet. There is a pretty large software community around an Operating System called Linux (and other associated software), which has quite a few amateurs and also a bunch of professionals now.

        I'm actually one of those self-trained software engineers, but I do recognize that my formal (read college) training was valuable and made me a better software engineer than I would be otherwise. I can't analyze myself or a whole profession, but there is a significant number that learned it by reading what you can, combining it with advice from others, and a bit of practice to figure out how to do things.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Water heaters in jeopardy?

          CPW,

          I was just wondering, are you interested in plumbing? What brings you to a plumbing forum?

          Thanks, Chris

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Water heaters in jeopardy?

            Originally posted by cpw View Post
            Duck, I agree with you that for combustion appliances you should hire a plumber. I don't mean to belittle you. I think that even if it wasn't the law there would still be plenty of work for plumbers. There is plenty of work for auto mechanics, and you are allowed to work on your own car. I change my own oil in one of two cars, anything else I bring it in, but I do have the option of fixing or maintaining it myself.
            You didn't belittle me, you belittle the trade when you equate one hack as an example of the trades as a whole to rationalize an agenda...it would seem somehow you forgot who you were talking to in this forum.
            Originally posted by cpw View Post
            I think that even if it wasn't the law there would still be plenty of work for plumbers. There is plenty of work for auto mechanics, and you are allowed to work on your own car. I change my own oil in one of two cars, anything else I bring it in, but I do have the option of fixing or maintaining it myself.
            You're also required to pass an inspection each year to ensure you're not a road hazard, I find it best to pay a mechanic who has the right tools, I rest easier driving my family on the highway when I'm not worried if I replaced the tie rod the right way.
            Oil change, sure...engine light, mechanic.
            I also don't expect a mechanic to offer me free advice on how to avoid hiring him.
            Originally posted by cpw View Post
            There is a pretty large portion of software engineers out there who are self-trained via reading books and the Internet. There is a pretty large software community around an Operating System called Linux (and other associated software), which has quite a few amateurs and also a bunch of professionals now.

            I'm actually one of those self-trained software engineers, but I do recognize that my formal (read college) training was valuable and made me a better software engineer than I would be otherwise. I can't analyze myself or a whole profession, but there is a significant number that learned it by reading what you can, combining it with advice from others, and a bit of practice to figure out how to do things.
            I was out with an injury for 6 weeks a few years back, in that time I learned a wee bit of C++, the STL, generic algorythms, static/dynamic memory, classes, polymorphism, even started into openGL, but that doesn't make me a programmer.

            I was bored and decided to do something constructive while I couldn't walk. Maybe one day I could get back to it, but I doubt I'd get far in a career at it. You undoubtedly know the syntax unforgiveness of that language and the years of experience it takes just to become familiar enough to perform at basic levels.
            Reading a book means close to nothing, first hand experience does.

            I wouldn't presume to insult any decent programmer by stating my acquired knowledge was anywhere near adequate just from reading about it.

            It's almost an inside joke we say to eachother in line at the supply, or on the job, lines like: "Guy bought a book at home depot and doesn't understand why his sink backs up".

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Water heaters in jeopardy?

              Originally posted by W/H watcher View Post
              CPW,

              I was just wondering, are you interested in plumbing? What brings you to a plumbing forum?

              Thanks, Chris
              The woodworking side of the fence brought me here. I just think that it is a cool place to hang out and discuss stuff, a lot of which seems to be plumbing.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Water heaters in jeopardy?

                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                You didn't belittle me, you belittle the trade when you equate one hack as an example of the trades as a whole to rationalize an agenda...it would seem somehow you forgot who you were talking to in this forum.
                I'll just trying to say say there are good plumbers and there are bad plumbers. You know examples of both. There are also good programmers and down right terrible programmers. Unfortunately, it is difficult to really know what category someone fits into until after you hire them.

                added as an edit -> I'll also add that just like there are good/bad plumbers out there, there are homeowners who don't care if they do it right and those that do. Sometimes when I see the posts that say all homeowners are lazy and cheap I get bothered by it. I should try better to ignore them rather than trying to argue that it isn't just homeowners that have bad apples.

                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                I was out with an injury for 6 weeks a few years back, in that time I learned a wee bit of C++, the STL, generic algorythms, static/dynamic memory, classes, polymorphism, even started into openGL, but that doesn't make me a programmer.

                I was bored and decided to do something constructive while I couldn't walk. Maybe one day I could get back to it, but I doubt I'd get far in a career at it. You undoubtedly know the syntax unforgiveness of that language and the years of experience it takes just to become familiar enough to perform at basic levels.
                Reading a book means close to nothing, first hand experience does.

                I wouldn't presume to insult any decent programmer by stating my acquired knowledge was anywhere near adequate just from reading about it.
                If you kept at it for a while longer you would be. I know several people who had programming/system administration jobs w/o any formal training. At least during the earlier years of the decade things were wide open if you were able to sell your skills, and once you get that first job getting the second is no problem.

                If you were doing C++, STL, and OpenGL you were biting off just about the hardest thing you could chew. I personally just learned STL for real in the last two years at my new job, and it can be terribly nasty and confusing. One of the hardest, but most rewarding assignments I had to do in my undergrad was implementing OpenGL from scratch with all of the involved matrix math.
                Last edited by cpw; 05-27-2008, 10:41 PM.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Water heaters in jeopardy?

                  Originally posted by cpw View Post
                  I'll just say there are good plumbers and there are bad plumbers. You know examples of both. There are also good programmers and down right terrible programmers. Unfortunately, it is difficult to really know what category someone fits into until after you hire them.


                  If you kept at it for a while longer you would be. I know several people who had programming/system administration jobs w/o any formal training. At least during the earlier years of the decade things were wide open if you were able to sell your skills, and once you get that first job getting the second is no problem.

                  If you were doing C++, STL, and OpenGL you were biting off just about the hardest thing you could chew. I personally just learned STL for real in the last two years at my new job, and it can be terribly nasty and confusing. One of the hardest, but most rewarding assignments I had to do in my undergrad was implementing OpenGL from scratch with all of the involved matrix math.
                  An understatement, knowing which functions do what, how to use them, syntax...where they may conflict.
                  Some errors don't show up till way down the road...good times.
                  then there's garbage collection, C++ is notoriously a hog.

                  Then, top it off with a strong distaste for Gates (the epitomy of what started Linux), rumors that C# or .NET are going to render C++ obsolete, so maybe I'm learning latin right before the fall of the Roman Empire.
                  Gates J++ attempt to replace Java didn't float, so maybe C# won't either...but I'd heard it's about as user friendly as Java, with the functionality of C++.
                  The endless learning curve for programmers is daunting...learn something and it's obsolete in a year, other things are fundamental for ages.
                  This is the point where I just broke out my plumbing code book and got back to what I know.
                  I do alotta work for programmers, it pro's and engineers, I pick brains as often as I can, one thing for certain after chatting with C++ engineers in particular...you DON'T learn that job by reading a book.
                  The same can be said of most vocations.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Water heaters in jeopardy?

                    Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                    Also, go ahead and do your own work, CPW. If you feel you know what you are doing confidently.

                    I installed a tankless electric water heater in a mobile home today that owner tried to connect themselves. Copper flexes hanging from the heater, no shut-off valves and then she tried to use compression fitting on the polybutylene, which leaked like crazy.
                    I installed it according to the manufacturer's directions and told her to try to return the parts that she had bought. This happens quite often, people attempt to do their own plumbing and then it costs them more because they have to call a pro in anyway, after buying parts adn wasting time fiddling around. Hopefully without causing property damage.

                    The old water heater was gone but it was installed without a pan (which is required by code in this state) and leaked all over, the floors in the bathroom were warped so bad they will have to be completely ripped out.
                    Thats the second house with severe water damage I have seen this week because a water heater pan wasn't installed in situations were it was required by code for good reason.
                    Service Guy,your post just raised a thought.THX
                    When we install a water heater inside the home we too are required to use a pan.Yet I have yet to hear or see anyone protect a home from damage that could possibly done by a tankless splitting it's seams.We just had one flood a garage due to the corrosive elements in the water where it was installed.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Water heaters in jeopardy?

                      Good thought Dirtyhands. I didn't even think about it. I'll call her back and suggest to her installing a drain-pan under the tankless ( although I am not sure a round pan would effectively catch a future leak) after she gets the floors fixed.
                      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X