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  • #16
    Re: Natural gas venting

    If its a straight chimney I use B-vent more often than not. Roughly 170kbtu isnt that much for 1 chimney, if it has a decent amount of height. Though depending on your codes there may be special requirements for a single flue serving 4 appliances. Are the furnaces natural draft or fan assist? Whats the btu rating of the water heaters? Whats the total height of the chimney?

    I'll have to check the total BTU's. The bidder does both HVAC and plumbing, not sure how the codes are set up here in KY. The total height is about 32 feet from the basement through the chimney, including the height above the brick. The furnaces are 80 % about 10 year old Amana's. The gas water heaters are about 5 years old, the older type, 30 gallon, no high efficiency. I'm not sure about the BTU's of the water heaters, I'll have to check. The bid for stainless is $850 more than the aluminum. The chimney inside area seems to be plenty big for 4 " piping. There are 2 old fireplaces that are no longer operational, but I took a glance down the chimney and it looks like it is a straight shot all of the way down.
    The levels of nitrogen oxides produced from burning natural gas should be low enough that it would not overly pit the aluminum, but I can't seem to find any data showing the effects of the oxides on aluminum. From my chemistry experience at work, it would seem the oxides would produce a layer on the metal and it would take a long time for any damage to exist on aluminum. I just want to cover all my bases before I get the guy to buy the materials.

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    • #17
      Re: Natural gas venting

      Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
      Please correct Me if I'm wrong,Duck. I believe You are in Mass. I lived, and worked there for 38 years. Now I'm a G. C. in Ca., My son also is one. We do all our own plumb. and elec. ,under our license here. Our work is inspected and signed off. Now a plumber in N. H. or Mass. ,has back flipes over that!. A plumber doing much tin knocking in Ca. is somewhat rare.
      HVAC guys ,have all the shop tools ,and skills for that ,here. It's a big country,and localities do it different from one another. Mass. doesn't rule Ca. And Ca doesn't rule Ill.[Hi killer T., You know Me as Driftwood , Welcome aboard]. I would not consider allum. for a liner,just My opinion. Tool
      The link I posted above was mandated directly for HVAC installers that were skipping the inspections on gas & vent work..."Heating & HVAC" co's are no longer allowed to do that work, many were slipping it in under the radar..I think there were some CO mishaps that lead to the ruling.
      Also, I respect that you do your work legally, however..GlKearns has a fairly recent thread that completely illuminates the unfairness of the three trade rule in Cali, nothing personal as you undoubtedly know how strict MA is...it gives GC's an unfair advantage without having to do the time specific to the trade...makes me wonder if Cali inspectors aren't more like part time instructors in many cases.
      I'm sure you know your share of hacks that have no right to be touching electrical, plumbing & gas, but they slip it in under that rule, inspectors don't catch every mistake either.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Natural gas venting

        S.F. has a lot of x union plumbers as inspectors. They don't like us G.C. doing the plumbing.
        Every permit I pull They know I do it under My gc lic. My work is neat,and to code. Ilove plumbing and have a passion for it. After My stent operation,I farmed out some plumbing to a very experienced plumber. I felt like I was running a day care for a 55 year old man.
        Never again. Yes I think most gc's do hacked work outside there trade. I also was a cert. welder for years and still weld on struct. steel. funny ,iron workers have no problem with that! Tool
        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Natural gas venting

          Originally posted by nkyrental View Post
          If its a straight chimney I use B-vent more often than not. Roughly 170kbtu isnt that much for 1 chimney, if it has a decent amount of height. Though depending on your codes there may be special requirements for a single flue serving 4 appliances. Are the furnaces natural draft or fan assist? Whats the btu rating of the water heaters? Whats the total height of the chimney?

          I'll have to check the total BTU's. The bidder does both HVAC and plumbing, not sure how the codes are set up here in KY. The total height is about 32 feet from the basement through the chimney, including the height above the brick. The furnaces are 80 % about 10 year old Amana's. The gas water heaters are about 5 years old, the older type, 30 gallon, no high efficiency. I'm not sure about the BTU's of the water heaters, I'll have to check. The bid for stainless is $850 more than the aluminum. The chimney inside area seems to be plenty big for 4 " piping. There are 2 old fireplaces that are no longer operational, but I took a glance down the chimney and it looks like it is a straight shot all of the way down.
          The levels of nitrogen oxides produced from burning natural gas should be low enough that it would not overly pit the aluminum, but I can't seem to find any data showing the effects of the oxides on aluminum. From my chemistry experience at work, it would seem the oxides would produce a layer on the metal and it would take a long time for any damage to exist on aluminum. I just want to cover all my bases before I get the guy to buy the materials.
          You know, I find the plumbers in this forum tend to digress to nonessential issues that don't pertain to the question at hand. For instance, here in MI, you need the mech lis to do venting, but most master plumbers that have any size to their operation get it, so plumbers do it.
          Anyway, the flues that are being relined, what shape are they and what are the inner dimensions. Ordinarily, I'ld say whoever was giving you your pricing should have done his homework and it didn't sound unreasonable, until you got to the cost difference. I haven't priced a ss liner in awhile,
          apparently, never had problems with aluminum aside from tearing them now and then and starting over. Once in, properly, they should last as long or longer than the vent pipe connected to them, since they are on the vertical part of the venting system. Just make sure they're not trying to put a 6" round into a 6" square with mortar. I find if you try to stretch a 35' liner to 35', aluminum will rip first a fair percentage, and they're cheap enough to get extra length.
          So if you check out the price difference, and find it's legit, or if anyone knows? I'ld be curious. The SS I've worked with is pricey, but it's not THAT pricey.
          sigpic3:00, I mean 5:00, and work is done. Time to crack a cold one.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Natural gas venting

            here's one venting pipe .com 304 stainless steel 6" x 35 ft. $355.38 = shipping ect.

            hope this helps
            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Natural gas venting

              So it's an extra 175 each for the liners in 4". Sounds more like what I would have thought.
              sigpic3:00, I mean 5:00, and work is done. Time to crack a cold one.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Natural gas venting

                Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                The term "plumber" varies from state to state. In new york state, plumbers did all the heating work, they have a 'plumbing and heating' license. AC tinknockers couldn't touch a boiler without that same license.
                Here in North carolina, plumbing license covers plumbing and gas piping, but not heating. So here, plumbers can't touch a boiler. HVAC guys license covers all heating and cooling. It was weird to me at first, but now I'm used to it.
                Not 100% true. There is no State License here, so each county has jurisdiction on this. Where I work the Master license covers heating. In other counties there is a seperate license for heating. In some counties there are no licenses.

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                • #23
                  Re: Natural gas venting

                  Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                  Not 100% true. There is no State License here, so each county has jurisdiction on this. Where I work the Master license covers heating. In other counties there is a seperate license for heating. In some counties there are no licenses.
                  Oh fer cryin' out loud...ya know what he meant..state to state or county to county, he was making reference to the fact that the role of plumber can completely change depending on locale.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Natural gas venting

                    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                    Oh fer cryin' out loud...ya know what he meant..state to state or county to county, he was making reference to the fact that the role of plumber can completely change depending on locale.
                    I wasnt correcting him on the fact that it's not a state license you hick-dead
                    it was the point that some require a seperate license and some just a master license.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Natural gas venting

                      Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                      I wasnt correcting him on the fact that it's not a state license you hick-dead
                      it was the point that some require a seperate license and some just a master license.
                      OH YEAH...well...your a big dumb ugly head...and yer mommy dresses ya funny.

                      Here in MA, a plumbers license covers ALL gas, water, drainage & ventng...all but the cooling part of HVAC ...and word has it our board wants to change that because of the number of HVAC co's that are installing furnaces and skipping the licensing/inspection part.

                      I worked with a licensed master from NY during my early apprenticeship, he was hardcore, very dry sense of humor & EXTREMELY detail oriented.
                      He told me how confusing the licensing is there...I'd go batty just trying to figure out where I could work, and what test I'd need to take to work the next town over....completely nuts.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Natural gas venting

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        OH YEAH...well...your a big dumb ugly head...and yer mommy dresses ya funny.

                        Here in MA, a plumbers license covers ALL gas, water, drainage & ventng...all but the cooling part of HVAC ...and word has it our board wants to change that because of the number of HVAC co's that are installing furnaces and skipping the licensing/inspection part.

                        I worked with a licensed master from NY during my early apprenticeship, he was hardcore, very dry sense of humor & EXTREMELY detail oriented.
                        He told me how confusing the licensing is there...I'd go batty just trying to figure out where I could work, and what test I'd need to take to work the next town over....completely nuts.

                        Comment

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