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Natural gas venting

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  • Natural gas venting

    I received a bid to line an old chimney for 2 55,000 btu furnaces, and 2 30 gallon water heaters, two liners would be needed due to the small size of the chimney chases. (the chimney is split into two chambers, so each too small to do 1 liner for all four items. The bid included the use of 306 stainless steel or a second price for aluminum. The aluminum is a lot cheaper than the stainless, as expected. I asked the bidder about the life of the aluminum versus the stainless and all he said was stainless is lifetime, aluminum is 15 years from the manufacturer, 1 year warranty on labor for both. Seems the low levels of nitrogen oxides in natural gas fumes would not affect the aluminum too much, so what is everyones opinion on the life span of aluminum? Are there any other better alternatives than these two metals?

  • #2
    Re: Natural gas venting

    You should post this in the HVAC forum as they will be able to answer your question a lot better than a plumber would!!
    ________
    VAPORMATIC VAPORIZER
    Last edited by TOPDAWG; 02-24-2011, 06:09 PM.
    Mike

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    • #3
      Re: Natural gas venting

      Spend the extra bucks and go for the stainless. Aluminum will pit and corrode.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: Natural gas venting

        Actually, in my state at least...it's illegal for anyone aside from a plumber to touch CO venting.
        HVAC techs or heating co's either have to have a licensed plumber, or sub out to one.
        Last edited by DuckButter; 06-26-2008, 07:18 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Natural gas venting

          If its a straight chimney I use B-vent more often than not. Roughly 170kbtu isnt that much for 1 chimney, if it has a decent amount of height. Though depending on your codes there may be special requirements for a single flue serving 4 appliances. Are the furnaces natural draft or fan assist? Whats the btu rating of the water heaters? Whats the total height of the chimney?

          Duck, your codes never cease to amaze me. Theres no way in hell here we'd let a plumber touch a chimney.

          Andy

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          • #6
            Re: Natural gas venting

            Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
            If its a straight chimney I use B-vent more often than not. Roughly 170kbtu isnt that much for 1 chimney, if it has a decent amount of height. Though depending on your codes there may be special requirements for a single flue serving 4 appliances. Are the furnaces natural draft or fan assist? Whats the btu rating of the water heaters? Whats the total height of the chimney?

            Duck, your codes never cease to amaze me. Theres no way in hell here we'd let a plumber touch a chimney.

            Andy
            The term "plumber" varies from state to state. In new york state, plumbers did all the heating work, they have a 'plumbing and heating' license. AC tinknockers couldn't touch a boiler without that same license.
            Here in North carolina, plumbing license covers plumbing and gas piping, but not heating. So here, plumbers can't touch a boiler. HVAC guys license covers all heating and cooling. It was weird to me at first, but now I'm used to it.
            Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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            • #7
              Re: Natural gas venting

              And Carl, to my knowledge, HVAC or Plumbers can't touch a boiler. You must have a separate boiler license.

              J.C.

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              • #8
                Re: Natural gas venting

                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                And Carl, to my knowledge, HVAC or Plumbers can't touch a boiler. You must have a separate boiler license.

                J.C.
                Well, that shows how little I know about the heating codes here. I'm just a dirty plumber...
                Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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                • #9
                  Re: Natural gas venting

                  well i would go with the stainless i have done them and the aluminum is a lot harder if it a snug fit ,it will be hard to pull it down and can rip it

                  what ever one you go with are they putting insulation in around the pipe make sure they do

                  in pa we an HVAC CO we can do every thing but wast related type plumbing
                  Charlie

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                  • #10
                    Re: Natural gas venting

                    Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
                    If its a straight chimney I use B-vent more often than not. Roughly 170kbtu isnt that much for 1 chimney, if it has a decent amount of height. Though depending on your codes there may be special requirements for a single flue serving 4 appliances. Are the furnaces natural draft or fan assist? Whats the btu rating of the water heaters? Whats the total height of the chimney?

                    Duck, your codes never cease to amaze me. Theres no way in hell here we'd let a plumber touch a chimney.

                    Andy
                    We'd never let an HVAC tech do flue work:

                    "The complete installation, alteration, replacement or repair of gas fueled equipment requires that the licensed plumber or gas fitter provide the proper venting of any gas fueled appliance in accordance with the regulations promulgated by the Board, the National Fuel Gas Code, NFPA 54-2002 and ANSI Z223.1-2002. The provisions of these regulations and codes are applicable to licensed plumbers or gas fitters."

                    Here's the source:

                    Regarding Licensure Necessary To Engage In the Venting of Flue Gases From Gas Fueled Appliances

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                    • #11
                      Re: Natural gas venting

                      Here, my HVAC masters license covers wet heat, dry heat, a/c's, ductwork, chimneys, and gas. In Iowa currently theres 17 different licenses you can get just for the HVAC end, leading up to the masters. The plumbers do waste, supply lines and gas. They are allowed to tie in their own water heater vents on changeouts. I'm not sure if they are allowed to do chimneys or not. But, they never do. Its always our job. On new construction, the plumber sets the heater, and we vent it. In Iowa, Im not allowed to touch any waste lines, but I can do simple slip under water heater changeouts. (which I choose not to) Illinois has their own state plumbing code and I'm not allowed to touch any waste or supply lines, but I'm still allowed to run gas.

                      Confused yet? On top of all that, the 7 different cities that I am licensed in all have their own city codes which trump any state codes. Its BS I tell ya. Theres less than a half million people in my area and I have 7 different codes to follow. I think I have it good though compared to the DC area guys.

                      Andy

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                      • #12
                        Re: Natural gas venting

                        Code Redundancy.


                        J.C.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Natural gas venting

                          Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
                          Here, my HVAC masters license covers wet heat, dry heat, a/c's, ductwork, chimneys, and gas. In Iowa currently theres 17 different licenses you can get just for the HVAC end, leading up to the masters. The plumbers do waste, supply lines and gas. They are allowed to tie in their own water heater vents on changeouts. I'm not sure if they are allowed to do chimneys or not. But, they never do. Its always our job. On new construction, the plumber sets the heater, and we vent it. In Iowa, Im not allowed to touch any waste lines, but I can do simple slip under water heater changeouts. (which I choose not to) Illinois has their own state plumbing code and I'm not allowed to touch any waste or supply lines, but I'm still allowed to run gas.

                          Confused yet? On top of all that, the 7 different cities that I am licensed in all have their own city codes which trump any state codes. Its BS I tell ya. Theres less than a half million people in my area and I have 7 different codes to follow. I think I have it good though compared to the DC area guys.

                          Andy
                          Ahhhh...it sounds like where you are, the HVAC guys have to do an apprenticeship and state testing for licensing.

                          Ok, wanna scream?
                          Here, all ya gotta do is get EPA certified and you're an HVAC tech, Nate doesn't hurt, but EPA is it.

                          As for boilers, nobody but plumbers touch 'em.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Natural gas venting

                            If you think your license requirements are screwed up check out ours. We have 6 separate endorsments under the new gas licence that include, pipe installer, equipment installer - propane, equipment installer - natural gas, equipment service - propane, equipment service - natural gas, and last but not least, hearth equipment installer. This is without a doubt the stupidest piece of legislation ever passed. What in hell's name is the difference between a natural gas equipment installer and a propane equipment installer.? The equipment is all the same, the only difference is the gas valve. $ 225.00 for the stupid license and as of yet, no state inspectors and the towns are not required to mandate permitting. ( It's unconstitutional)
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Re: Natural gas venting

                              Please correct Me if I'm wrong,Duck. I believe You are in Mass. I lived, and worked there for 38 years. Now I'm a G. C. in Ca., My son also is one. We do all our own plumb. and elec. ,under our license here. Our work is inspected and signed off. Now a plumber in N. H. or Mass. ,has back flipes over that!. A plumber doing much tin knocking in Ca. is somewhat rare.
                              HVAC guys ,have all the shop tools ,and skills for that ,here. It's a big country,and localities do it different from one another. Mass. doesn't rule Ca. And Ca doesn't rule Ill.[Hi killer T., You know Me as Driftwood , Welcome aboard]. I would not consider allum. for a liner,just My opinion. Tool
                              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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