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  • Flange on slab help

    Hey guys, well I am at this stage of my build.
    The offices came out really nicely so far.
    I have passed every inspection to date and I am really pleased with this.
    This will add some seriously welcome space to my property.
    Below is a picture of my latest question(s).
    As you can see it is a (rough) toilet waste line.
    I need to know how to install the flange?

    Obviously I need to pour cement into the hole, but my question is when and how should I install the bolts that hold the toilet to the ground/flange when it is all said and done?
    Are there bolts that have some kind of retainers on the bottom so that when I pour the cement they are retained by the cement?
    Or do I just pour the cement up and level it off to the existing concrete and use regular bolts?

    I need a clue here men.
    As usual, any help you gents give me is very much appreciated.!.
    For any new folks looking at this thread, what I learned here is that if I ask reasonably intelligent questions, I am willing to learn and listen I get wonderful advice here on this forum.

    I also come back and share how I applied the advice and post pictures so these guys can see the final outcome, instead of disappearing and never showing my gratitude for the help I received.

    I think these guys are all uber professional and are proud tradesmen who deserve a return on investment..... [/end brown nose]

    heres the shathole let me know what you think.?.




  • #2
    Re: Flange on slab help

    The picture is hard to tell is that abs pipe coming out of the floor and what size is it ?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Flange on slab help

      The first question is what will your floor finish be?

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Flange on slab help

        AHHHHH!!!!
        WHAT ARE YOU,NUTSS!!!!

        What's up Scream?
        Congrats on the job.

        Get rid of that fricken,cheap plastic ring...Now.It deforms and breaks.
        Set the new ring after flooring.
        Put a four inch 1/2coupling on the pipe cut at f/f(no glue) and fill in the excessively large foam-out with mortar to get you going.
        Last edited by drtyhands; 06-29-2008, 10:07 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Flange on slab help

          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
          AHHHHH!!!!
          WHAT ARE YOU,NUTSS!!!!

          What's up Scream?
          Congrats on the job.

          Get rid of that fricken,cheap plastic ring...Now.It deforms and breaks.
          Set the new ring after flooring.
          Put a four inch coupling on the pipe and fill in the excessively large foam-out with mortar to get you going.
          I noticed that as well but didn't want to hurt any feelings over a no harm no foul. It also looks like the water supply is only 3" on center where I prefer 6". The big question is why can't we get away with setting the flange in finish and he does? IMHO that is the only way to go.

          Mark

          BTW: Good catch on your edit
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Flange on slab help

            On slabs we usually leave a four inch pipe sticking well up over floor level then concreet right up to the pipe. after the flooring is down in the bathroom we cut the pipe down flush with that and used a 4 inch insert closet flange that we glue inside of the four inch pipe and the anchor the metal flange down with masonary screws

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Flange on slab help

              With plastic underground, I cut the riser and set a 3" coupling about 1/8-1/4" under grade. The finishers go right over the top and it's perfectly flat. Then a 3" spigot collar gets glued into the coupling. Next I tapcon the flange into the slab. I hat leaving the riser above grade. The finishers can't get the floor perfectly flat, so the collar is always a little up, or you have to chip.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Flange on slab help

                Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                I noticed that as well but didn't want to hurt any feelings over a no harm no foul. It also looks like the water supply is only 3" on center where I prefer 6". The big question is why can't we get away with setting the flange in finish and he does? IMHO that is the only way to go.

                Mark

                BTW: Good catch on your edit
                I had to try to go the route of slapping something up there before the rest of the forum speed posted on top of me,then fall back fix and fill.
                You know...It takes me half an hour to type my name.

                HAPPY SUNDAY
                WOO-HOOOO

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Flange on slab help

                  Originally posted by Bogart View Post
                  With plastic underground, I cut the riser and set a 3" coupling about 1/8-1/4" under grade. The finishers go right over the top and it's perfectly flat. Then a 3" spigot collar gets glued into the coupling. Next I tapcon the flange into the slab. I hat leaving the riser above grade. The finishers can't get the floor perfectly flat, so the collar is always a little up, or you have to chip.
                  We like the larger,more open ring provided with bringing four inch up through the floor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Flange on slab help

                    Originally posted by ridgidpipe View Post
                    On slabs we usually leave a four inch pipe sticking well up over floor level then concreet right up to the pipe. after the flooring is down in the bathroom we cut the pipe down flush with that and used a 4 inch insert closet flange that we glue inside of the four inch pipe and the anchor the metal flange down with masonary screws
                    I cannot use an insert fitting of any type. Code here. NO fitting may be glued inside of the pipe.

                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Flange on slab help

                      Ok fellas,

                      So. No hurt feelings here...lets play hardball, you guys have never pulled punches with me yet so I am good with whatever you say.

                      My concrete guy was the one who suggested that large of a foam wrap around the pipe prior to pouring the slab (I guess that was the wrong way to go?)

                      The slab you see was/is supposed to be finished floor.
                      The goal is to use the exotic concrete stains to achieve the final look and feel of the floor throughout each of the entire office(s).

                      So from your replies, it appears that the hole around the (4") PVC that is sticking up is excessively large, but thats the way it is and now I have to make it work........So what is the best way to do that taking into account that the existing slab will be finished floor?

                      Remember I used the 4" PVC because you guys (drtyhands, ToUtahNow, Rick) suggested that it was wayyyy better so thats what I did.
                      It reduces down to a 3" line under the slab.

                      Anyway, the concrete lip that WAS there after I pulled the foam out has been chipped away so I now have a flat surface to work with.

                      So here is what I understand:

                      (1) get a metal flange. (inside or outside?)
                      (2) pour self leveling concrete into the hole around the pipe and let it set.
                      (3) drill holes in the proper places around the flange for masonry anchors (Red Heads?) in the new concrete after it has set and hardened for a day or so.
                      (4) the flange will now be sitting on top of the finish floor, ready for a wax ring.
                      (5) I placed my water supply a little too close to the center line of the waste line?

                      Again, many thanks guys.

                      P.S. what is the best way to cut that 4" PVC? and should it be flush with the concrete or should I try to cut it slightly below the surface somehow?

                      Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Flange on slab help

                        Originally posted by Team Scream View Post
                        Ok fellas,

                        So. No hurt feelings here...lets play hardball, you guys have never pulled punches with me yet so I am good with whatever you say.

                        My concrete guy was the one who suggested that large of a foam wrap around the pipe prior to pouring the slab (I guess that was the wrong way to go?)

                        The slab you see was/is supposed to be finished floor.
                        The goal is to use the exotic concrete stains to achieve the final look and feel of the floor throughout each of the entire office(s).

                        So from your replies, it appears that the hole around the (4") PVC that is sticking up is excessively large, but thats the way it is and now I have to make it work........So what is the best way to do that taking into account that the existing slab will be finished floor?

                        Remember I used the 4" PVC because you guys (drtyhands, ToUtahNow, Rick) suggested that it was wayyyy better so thats what I did.
                        It reduces down to a 3" line under the slab.

                        Anyway, the concrete lip that WAS there after I pulled the foam out has been chipped away so I now have a flat surface to work with.

                        So here is what I understand:

                        (1) get a metal flange. (inside or outside?)
                        (2) pour self leveling concrete into the hole around the pipe and let it set.
                        (3) drill holes in the proper places around the flange for masonry anchors (Red Heads?) in the new concrete after it has set and hardened for a day or so.
                        (4) the flange will now be sitting on top of the finish floor, ready for a wax ring.
                        (5) I placed my water supply a little too close to the center line of the waste line?

                        Again, many thanks guys.

                        P.S. what is the best way to cut that 4" PVC? and should it be flush with the concrete or should I try to cut it slightly below the surface somehow?

                        Thanks!
                        I'll bite and accept criticism.

                        1) Move your water line before you set the toilet. About 6" to the left of center is typical.
                        2) Get a STAINLESS ring closet flange that glues on the outside of the pipe. I've had good luck with all PVC flanges but that's all we work with here. If the guys who use ABS all the time say it will flex....go metal. AND NOT THE PAINTED ONE.
                        3) Cut the pipe level with the finished floor. Handsaw will get you close. Then you'll probably have to cut the pipe lower on the inside of the pipe. There are internal pipe cutters that you probably should not buy as this is not your primary occupation. But you might want to purchase an internal "pipe shooter" that attaches to a drill. Has a little circular saw blade on it. Also seen success with a Dremel tool. Tape either cutter to the tool if you can. Trust me.
                        You might have to measure or trial error the flange for proper height. If the floor is level, align the bottom of the flange with the floor level using a straight edge or level.
                        4) Glue it on. Align it PROPERLY so the closet bolts are in the correct place. Place 4 good size stainless screws or bolts in the flange and pour concrete into the void. The concrete will grab the fasteners to eliminate drilling. Also pay attention to where your closet bolts will go. Not too much concrete. Leave room for them. Should be stable and level.

                        My opinion, and hope this helps!

                        J.C.

                        Edit: After looking at your picture again. I think my way might be hard to get the concrete underneath after gluing and drtyhands recommendation might be better. I would move the water line before toilet installation, typically 6" left of center. I would cut the pipe to the RIGHT height. Slip a coupling on (no glue) and concrete around it. Not to wet a mix. Then I would slip the coupling off and glue on the flange I recommended with proper alignment, "screw" some stainless fasteners into the wet concrete and you should be ok.
                        Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 06-29-2008, 06:59 PM. Reason: I think drtyhands way might be better.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Flange on slab help

                          Here is what I would do. Wrap the pipe a couple of times with a foam insulation, typical to what is used where the lumber meets the foundation. Then you can simply concrete up to the insulation. After the concrete has set the insulation can be easily dissolved with PVC cleaner, leaving you just the right amount of room to glue on a flange. Finally, attach the flange to the cured concrete with tap-con screws.
                          Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Flange on slab help

                            Wow some people do things the hard way. The easiest way I would think is to level the floor right up to the PVC pipe, Let it harden, Cut the pipe flush with the floor using your saw zahl , remember to deburr the pipe , then get a four inch PVC closet flange which will glue right inside of the pipe, Line up your slots for the johnni bolts and screw the metal flange into the concreet, Your water line may not even have to be moved ( usually that depends on the toilet you use ) set the toilet in place to see if it hits the line first , if not then just put on the shutoff valve before you set the toilet, The 6 inch rule is one that is great to follow in the future though but I run into jobs homeowners start with locations off all the time and they have lines where they shouldnt be and I can still make it work most of the time. Unless the bowl has a big base like a lot of Kohlers do you might be fine

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Flange on slab help

                              Originally posted by ridgidpipe View Post
                              Wow some people do things the hard way. The easiest way I would think is to level the floor right up to the PVC pipe, Let it harden, Cut the pipe flush with the floor using your saw zahl , remember to deburr the pipe , then get a four inch PVC closet flange which will glue right inside of the pipe, Line up your slots for the johnni bolts and screw the metal flange into the concreet, Your water line may not even have to be moved ( usually that depends on the toilet you use ) set the toilet in place to see if it hits the line first , if not then just put on the shutoff valve before you set the toilet, The 6 inch rule is one that is great to follow in the future though but I run into jobs homeowners start with locations off all the time and they have lines where they shouldnt be and I can still make it work most of the time. Unless the bowl has a big base like a lot of Kohlers do you might be fine
                              1)ABS closet flange. 2)Can't glue any fitting INSIDE the pipe. At least by my code.

                              J.C.

                              Comment

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