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  • Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

    Hi Everyone. I have a question which may be hard to answer without photos and complete details but nevertheless.

    My parents live in a commercial style condo. The plumbing is 30 years old and there seems to be a leak every few weeks there. They have two units, one which they kept for a live in or for one of their daughters and was rarely used, the other which they live in.

    The concierge found water damage in the kitchen of the party room of the condo which is one floor beneath this condo my parents own. The water damage consisted of mold on the ceiling and damage to the oak of the cabinets. The super inspected our unit above which I go to now and then and stay in now and then. He commented on a hole in the faucet of the tub. The hole is on the under belly where the diverter meets the aluminum. I saw this hole for at least a year and never thought that water could get behind the faucet, up half an inch, into the and behind the tiles. I should have changed the faucet but was preoccupied with day to day caregiving for my parents, keeping up with errands, shopping, cooking and renovating another unit to be sold. I also did not shower there more than once a week as i had my own condo elsewhere.

    A week later they still had a leak onto the party room kitchen and came back into the unit and found a dripping toilet tank. This caused condensation to the pipe which i witnessed. Yet another issue to be upset about. But the toilet was a good six feet to the left of the water damage. Still the sweating was obvious to the naked eye after a hole was cut in the ceiling.

    At this point I brought in a master plumber who commented that the toilet tank dripping would cause condensation and over a long period of time, damage below. He also commented that it was rather far from most of the damage. When he looked at the old spout (it had already been replaced), he said "no way" but I'm not sure how professionally he was assessing it or if he just wanted to be paid for replacing a faucet in the kitchen and a cartridge in the bathroom sink and couldn't be bothered with the issue.

    One day i thought i should stay in the unit and do some of my own investigating. I heard water running down behind my shower wall, went into the kitchen below the unit on the fifth floor and got a chair, peeked up the hole that was cut in the ceiling and found water running down along both the hot and cold pipes. I called the super at his home to let him know who earlier, I begged to keep looking elsewhere for weeks and stop focussing on my unit (parents unit), and told him what i found. I got a response to the effect of, yeah the leak is not fixed yet. Since the spout to my tub was already changed, I'm now wondering how much damage the faucet actually caused when compared to the loose joints behind the wall which was later found two floors above mine.

    Though i was not going to be charged, my parents and I were very upset from the start by this and I still have no closure as to how much the unit we own actually caused when compared to the loose joints.

    One thing about our damaged faucet it was sealed, but i think the seal was old and worn beneath the spout. It was also flush to the wall. These spouts are not hollow either, the have a plastic filling inside.

    Another problem also was that water was coming in through our fan above probably for years because the jacuzzis in the building have a faulty over flow drain. Because i do not live in the unit i did not catch it but my sister once did when she was there and complained that water was coming through the fan above to the concierge. It appears that each time the lady above took a bath, if the water level is too high above the over flow drain, then it leaks onto the floor and into the unit below through the fan. We received an elaborate letter from management explaining this when it happened again and other than asking the resident to not fill the water too high, this is all the building has done since the building was built with the jacuzzi's in the 80's.

    So here is the question. I also found a constant drip due to the fact that the handle to the shower was not closing all the way at times. So that constant drip would travel along the underbelly of the faucet and may have travelled up behind the faucet (which was tightly flush to the wall by the way) causing moisture below? I'm amazed, at it would have to travel against gravity for a bit, at least for half an inch before there was an opening in the tile.

    Anyways. I received threats from management when i told them i would tell the board after they still, even after all the problems with the joints causing water to flow down the hot and cold water pipes, accused the faucet to be part of the problem causing damage below. I think our unit had problems that should have been fixed. I think moisture was caused below by both the toilet and the faucet but how much is what i am still wondering even after so much time has passed.

    I went through hell for weeks, and still am upset over the lack of closure around this. No one is ever charged in this building for anything. And I realized its because the super and management make so many mistakes that if they were to charge residents they would be in the dog house themselves for every mistake they make.

    I'm actually pissed that they do not bring in plumbers to diagnose issues and rely on the super for everything. This is a high end condo in a high end area. Just recently they made an announcement that the super will replace all the valves to the laundry room and the bathroom. To save money of course.

    Before I rant on too much...I want some peoples opinions. How much damage was caused by the spout, the toilet, and the loose joints three units above behind the wall.
    Last edited by AZI; 07-17-2008, 09:57 AM. Reason: spelling, grammar

  • #2
    Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

    Welcome to the forum AZI.

    I'm not a plumber but would say it would be hard to pin point to what degree your unit would be responsible. (could get chewed out on this later).

    My only thought is why is this bothering you so much if your not paying for any of the repairs? I would be glad it was going to be fixed and not be charged. I guess the stress of people coming in and tearing up things could get under my skin but think the stress of taking care of your parents would be worse.( I went through that with my dad )..

    I'm sure there will be some pro's here shortly and they probably will have a say for you.

    shup

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

      This is a good example of why I don't like condos. Nobody wants to be responsible for anything, and in my experience most 'condo associations' are notoriously poor at upkeep and repair.
      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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      • #4
        Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

        Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
        This is a good example of why I don't like condos. Nobody wants to be responsible for anything, and in my experience most 'condo associations' are notoriously poor at upkeep and repair.
        Add to that, the steriotypical condo owner is someone who bought a small cubicle of real estate on short money rather than the full cost of a home...they're often not the richest folk around.

        I've had a few that invoke the "pass the buck" mentality onto me with expectations like I should bill the neighbor for work in their unit, or go through the association for my payment.
        Sorry, I'm not a bill collector, you called me, not them.

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        • #5
          Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

          I want some peoples opinions. How much damage was caused by the spout, the toilet, and the loose joints three units above behind the wall.[/quote]

          You want opinions, you came to the right place! We're full of them and if we can't dazzle you with our intelligence, then we will baffle you with our......

          My onion is that you need to make your managers accountable for what they are obligate to do. You do this by calling a mold remediation contractor. Call some of the small boys who are willing to give you a free estimate. These guys will scare you to death with their bull that you are going to die from the toxic molds that were caused by the water leaks. Then, call your manager and tell him that your family went to the doctor for blood tests and don't say another word. Wait until they ask you why. They fairly dumb if they don't know they are looking at a potential multi-million dollar lawsuit for their neglect to maintain the building and resulting or even potential mold growth.

          Your maintenance people have serious obligations to you. These obligations are not only to be performed at their convenience.

          Naturally, you need to do this is a professional way. I am certified for mold remediation and I think 99% of the mold jobs are a rip-off, so don't worry about the mold, and I guarantee there is going to be some mold. Most molds are not toxic. Or, you can call a licensed building contractor to inspect in the walls.

          Anyway, I'll bet you use the first method, you will be taken care of immediately. You have an obligation to your family.

          Jack

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          • #6
            Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

            Something seems very familar about AZI.
            Buy cheap, buy twice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

              Thanks for all your replies.

              About mold build up. I think management is a little slow in picking up on leaks, preventing them, and since the super does not live in the building, leaks are late in shut offs, yes.

              But since i neglected the suite, and i believe i did, i can only complain so much. The fact is, the faucet should have been tended to but since my parents own the unit and my father is 89 and not too keen on spending money, well, i just let some things go but is was sealed. As for dripping tank, that too was an over sight. So i cant go and sue people just like that but i can warn the board that problems are not being tended to on time.

              Another issue which the HVAC people here in this forum might be interested in.....



              Back in Feb, the super came to to replace the motor as it broke down, in the heating and cooling element behind the wall in my Dads room. Half an hour later, the copper coil busted open. Never mind that it took a good month and a half almost to replace the unit as apparently they were so out dated that they had to put one together by hand, I realized later as i gave it some thought, why this happened.

              Yes it was thirty years old, and the copper was worn, but also, the super drilled four holes in the housing, i believe the housing being close to the element, (the water tray that is) vibrated enough to cause the calcification inside the coils to break loose. I also think this caused a clog and hence the coil to burst. Apparently this happens often, where someone tries to repair something and poof, pop,.....a burst of water onto the floor. They were so afraid of a law suit because i took a picture of the coil in front of the super, that at the recent AGM, the board announced that they would replace all the coils in the building.

              I'm just feeling that the super should not be the shoe in for plumbers. He is also given the job of replacing all the filters in the building too. For awhile I have been mad at him for pretending to be so competent but i feel its the board that is trying to save money by asking him to do everything.

              I've heard about mold issues ... and i think this building has plenty ...but my hands are somewhat tied anyways by conservative parents who don't want to ruffle feathers here. Fact is, I've already ruffled feathers here. My brother is an architect, my Dad a mechanical engineer and once a builder, and i just love mechanical things so I'm not afraid to speak up from time to time or learn things and ask questions.

              I also know of another building that has dipped all their heating and cooling elements, cleaned out all the insulation, replaced it with closed cell foam, and did so after engineers came did a study on the bacteria in these units.

              I'm thinking of doing some activism in my parents building with this respect. At the same time many owners dont want to spend money on their lungs and on clean air so I may not do anything.

              I'm just very curious at times. WhetherI'm going to be charged or not is not the issue. Plumbing is interesting period. I've certainly learned that even the smallest amount of condensation over many years can cause a lot of damage. And even a slow drip, can find its way somewhere and cause damage. Water is amazing that way.

              Thanks again guys for your responses.
              Last edited by AZI; 07-18-2008, 05:32 PM. Reason: spelling, grammar

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

                I'm not a expert nor a attorney but would think if this is neglect from the super or from your AGM they would be responsible for damage caused by their neglect.

                I would just make sure you keep good records of what, when, and how they do repairs around there and write down these things and also write down your talks with the super and the AGM.

                shup

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

                  I must say that if you are not being charged with repairs I cant figure what you are getting so upset about. I guess if I lived in a high end condo in a high end area with this many problems I would just think about moving if I couldnt get these issues resolved.
                  I think you are right Ben

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                  • #10
                    Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

                    Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                    Something seems very familar about AZI.
                    Be nice! You are right. He sure writes a long post.

                    Jack

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

                      Actually, I'm a woman. Sorry for the long posts.

                      We now do not have hot water lol

                      no pressure on the hot water line...

                      they are replacing the pump booster system monday and my parents, 76 and 89 are without hot water or showers

                      great huh

                      i think i will not burden you guys and just start a blog

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                      • #12
                        Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

                        AT this point, I don't know WHO IS WHO , CAN YOU HELP ME GEAR?????
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                        • #13
                          Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

                          Help you? I'd do anything for a Marine but I'm still trying to figure it out myself. I can see by the lack of answers on what should be a good thread, that other members want to stay out of this one as well.
                          Buy cheap, buy twice.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

                            move !

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Damaged Faucets and Moisture Damage Below

                              Hey AZI Doesnt matter if you are a woman I know many who are in the plumbing business what I am trying to figure out is after writing such long post why not mention earlier in other post you wrote about your folks not having hot water. Sound like the condos they are in have serious problems.

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