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Shower and spigot both on

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  • #16
    Re: Shower and spigot both on

    Only the first posi-temp valves and the non-pressure balanced valves had the plastic diverter to send the water to the tub spout. The newer valves, there is only one hole facing downwards where the cartridge installs at. The water is forced downwards, and if it has no where to go it returns to the shower through a small V-shaped channel that seems to go around the valve body. My money is on an upside down valve. Guess the word "UP" did not help this guy.
    Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

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    • #17
      Re: Shower and spigot both on

      Stub out for tub spout too long and jammed against diverter inside spout?

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      • #18
        Re: Shower and spigot both on

        Thanks for the info..

        A common theme seems to be "upside down valve". I assume you mean the divertor behind the handle. I will take a look at this...and perhaps even get a new one as Moen is good for warranties.

        If the pressure is decreased, the water does not seem to leak out of the shower head. Also, when I detach the spigot, the same this happens so I don't think the spigot has anything to do with this.

        Keep sending your theories!

        Peter

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        • #19
          Re: Shower and spigot both on

          No, the entire valve installed upside down.
          sigpic

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          • #20
            Re: Shower and spigot both on

            Sheesh!

            I took the plate cover off under the handle and the divertor has "up" on the up side. It seems like it was installed correctly.

            As for replacing the spigot idea...it does the same problem even without a spigot attaced.

            I went to Home Depot tonight and got a entire new box...spigot, shower head, divertor, etc...will install these tomorrow.

            Cross fingers...

            Oh ya, he used flex tubes as well. Hope that's ok.

            Peter

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            • #21
              Re: Shower and spigot both on

              Flex tubes. Yea that is an excellent idea. Sometimes it is just easier to have it done right the first time. Can you please add a picture. I'm sure all of us would love to see just what you're dealing with.
              Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

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              • #22
                Re: Shower and spigot both on

                Originally posted by PeterPeterPeter View Post
                Sheesh!

                I took the plate cover off under the handle and the divertor has "up" on the up side. It seems like it was installed correctly.

                As for replacing the spigot idea...it does the same problem even without a spigot attaced.

                I went to Home Depot tonight and got a entire new box...spigot, shower head, divertor, etc...will install these tomorrow.

                Cross fingers...

                Oh ya, he used flex tubes as well. Hope that's ok.

                Peter
                HACK, HACK, HACKITY HACK! Next time hire a real plumber.
                Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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                • #23
                  Re: Shower and spigot both on

                  peter, before you completly cut out the old valve. look into the new one at the shower connection. see how it compares to the exisiting one. is the bypass tube installed in the new one and the old one?

                  if not maybe a simple fix without removing the entire valve, just the shower riser.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

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                  • #24
                    Re: Shower and spigot both on

                    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                    peter, before you completly cut out the old valve. look into the new one at the shower connection. see how it compares to the exisiting one. is the bypass tube installed in the new one and the old one?

                    if not maybe a simple fix without removing the entire valve, just the shower riser.

                    rick.
                    The newer Moen Posi-temp valves do not have that bypass tube. There is no straight connection between the tub spout and the shower. It must travel through the v-shaped brass waterway.
                    Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Shower and spigot both on

                      Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
                      Flex tubes. Yea that is an excellent idea. Sometimes it is just easier to have it done right the first time. Can you please add a picture. I'm sure all of us would love to see just what you're dealing with.
                      Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                      HACK, HACK, HACKITY HACK! Next time hire a real plumber.
                      guys, we don't know what is exactly the issue.

                      in new construction wood framing, you better have either a corrugated flex or soft copper on your valves or you will shear the pipe as the building shrinks. figure a good 1.5'' of shrinkage on a 3 story wood framed building.

                      just had a repair on a 20 year old building yesterday and the 1/2'' copper was defiantly tweaked as it was passing through the 2x4. it was not double drilled and the line developed a pin hole next to the joint. this was not a circ line, but a 1/2'' riser for a cold water lav on the second floor of a 3 story building.

                      we always had to double drill the studs on a horizontal offset. this allowed for the shrinkage and settlement.

                      of course pex has its own built in flex design.

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

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                      • #26
                        Re: Shower and spigot both on

                        What? I have done plenty of new construction, and we hard-piped copper to everything...flexes installed on a shower-valve??? They makes these to pass code?
                        Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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                        • #27
                          Re: Shower and spigot both on

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          guys, we don't know what is exactly the issue.

                          in new construction wood framing, you better have either a corrugated flex or soft copper on your valves or you will shear the pipe as the building shrinks. figure a good 1.5'' of shrinkage on a 3 story wood framed building.

                          just had a repair on a 20 year old building yesterday and the 1/2'' copper was defiantly tweaked as it was passing through the 2x4. it was not double drilled and the line developed a pin hole next to the joint. this was not a circ line, but a 1/2'' riser for a cold water lav on the second floor of a 3 story building.

                          we always had to double drill the studs on a horizontal offset. this allowed for the shrinkage and settlement.

                          of course pex has its own built in flex design.

                          rick.
                          Maybe in LA, so there are no leaks in the shower valve, as the city slides into the ocean when the big one comes. Everything I've ever seen is hard piped in copper to give the valve rigidity in the wall.
                          Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Shower and spigot both on

                            earthquakes have nothing to do with shrinkage. the wood is green/ wet when the building is built. the wood will shrink when it dries. the plumbing is installed when the building is being built.

                            for 15 years i did new construction plumbing. for 15 years we double drilled all horizontal holes in wood framed buildings 3 stories and more.

                            if the waste was abs plastic, this required expansion joints on anything over 20' of vertical.

                            earthquakes required sway bracing of any hangers over 18''. along with other seismic restraints on the heaters and equipment.

                            believe me it's no fun double drilling wood studs for trap arms and water piping. but it was required and still is, unless it's a metal stud building.

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

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                            • #29
                              Re: Shower and spigot both on

                              Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean "double drilling"?
                              Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Shower and spigot both on

                                Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
                                Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean "double drilling"?
                                typically you would drill a 1.375'' hole for a water line and a second one just above it to create an oval hole. you felt the pipe and lay it on the lower hole. this way as the wood shrinks and the building settles, the pipe has room before the wood stresses the pipe.

                                of course on waste pipes of 1.5'' or 2'', we would drill a 2 9/16'' hole and another on top to form the oval. if the wall was only 2x4 and we had to get through a load bearing wall, they either furred the wall or we hung the waste on the outside of the drywall and the cabinets covered the dirty arm. this was very typical on a kitchen trap arm with a window or open pony wall on it.

                                once again this applied to new construction of 3 stories or more. we use to wood frame up to 4 stories plus loft and i remember 1 hotel of 5 stories wood framed.

                                rick.
                                phoebe it is

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