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Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

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  • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

    Thought shutoffs we're required under each fixture.

    J.C.

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    • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

      Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
      No it does not change anything you having a "manifold" system.
      If I was aware of it I would change it.That's not to say if I was you.If I was you I would think of you I would think of the life of my tank.

      Sounds like we're kindof splitting hairs here.
      I certainly appreciate the feedback. I am simply trying to gather my facts such that when I approach the installers I sound like I know what I am talking about.

      Worse case scenario is that the installers refuse to do anything ... it should not cost too much to have a plumber make the corrections.

      I actually saw some expansion tanks at Home Depot the other day. Not sure how much they are ... but if they are reasonable, I may as well grab one and have a new one installed.

      Comment


      • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
        Are you saying to install the TXT on the entrance side (Cold) of the Check and you will still get the TXT benefits?

        J.C.
        The expansion tank goes AFTER the the cold water check but not in the hot water return loop. See PDF of a Noritz heater

        http://www.noritz.com/u/2a2_n751m_dhw_rec_qc.pdf

        Gear Junkie is right The IPC does not require TXT on tankless but every tankless manufacturer I've seen requires one.

        No way am I installing a 200,000 BTU heater without one
        Last edited by plumberscrack; 08-16-2008, 01:36 PM.

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        • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          Thought shutoffs we're required under each fixture.

          J.C.
          I don't have any ...

          My house was built in 99. Perhaps it was not code then ...

          I purchased it in 01.

          My plumber friend said that expansion tanks were not required then either, so he was a little surprised that I had one.

          Comment


          • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

            Originally posted by theoak View Post
            I certainly appreciate the feedback. I am simply trying to gather my facts such that when I approach the installers I sound like I know what I am talking about.

            Worse case scenario is that the installers refuse to do anything ... it should not cost too much to have a plumber make the corrections.

            I actually saw some expansion tanks at Home Depot the other day. Not sure how much they are ... but if they are reasonable, I may as well grab one and have a new one installed.
            Why do you want to replace your tank?
            Is there something I missed?

            The splitting hairs comment I was refering to us.There is nothing wrong with someone (like yourself) asking many questions.

            Comment


            • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

              Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
              Why do you want to replace your tank?
              Is there something I missed?

              The splitting hairs comment I was refering to us.There is nothing wrong with someone (like yourself) asking many questions.
              It's installed on HOT side

              And upside down I believe

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              • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

                Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                It's installed on HOT side

                And upside down I believe
                Crack,
                Sorry Bud,I don't know.Is there a good enough possibility the membrane is blown.

                Comment


                • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

                  Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                  The expansion tank goes AFTER the the cold water check but not in the hot water return loop. See PDF of a Noritz heater

                  http://www.noritz.com/u/2a2_n751m_dhw_rec_qc.pdf

                  Gear Junkie is right The IPC does not require TXT on tankless but every tankless manufacturer I've seen requires one.

                  No way am I install a 200,000 BTU heater without one
                  Actually ... this is good ... it appears in reference to a circulation system, but the Rinnai manual shows the same thing ... again, in reference to a circulation system.

                  The fact though that it displays the expansion tank on the cold water side might give me some muscle ...

                  Comment


                  • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

                    P-crack, the Noritz diagram also shows the TXT exposed to hot water in the recirc diagram.

                    On a side note, as much as I dislike the tankless hype, I dislike a recirc. system with them even more.

                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

                      Looks new enough that's it's probably ok but maybe suspect. He can remove it and pressure test it.

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                      • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

                        Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                        Why do you want to replace your tank?
                        Is there something I missed?

                        The splitting hairs comment I was refering to us.There is nothing wrong with someone (like yourself) asking many questions.
                        Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                        Crack,
                        Sorry Bud,I don't know.Is there a good enough possibility the membrane is blown.
                        Can the membrame be checked? There were some posts a while back that seemed to suggest that the expansion tank could be damaged as it is not designed for hot water.

                        That is why I mentioned that if they were reasonable, may as well buy a new one ...

                        Comment


                        • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

                          Courtroom Drama:

                          "ABC Plumbing, did you install a TXT in a HW recirc. loop?" Yes.
                          "Did you read the manuf. instructions saying it's not for hot water?"Yes.
                          "Are you aware that the inspection office has been deemed immune from prosecution?" No.
                          "Members of the jury, we have expert testimony and letters from the manufacturer stating that the TXT failed while the plaintiff was on vacation because it was installed on the HW side causing $80,000 in damages that ABC Plumbing is obviously responsible for......"

                          I know this sounds nuts but you never know.

                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

                            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                            P-crack, the Noritz diagram also shows the TXT exposed to hot water in the recirc diagram.

                            On a side note, as much as I dislike the tankless hype, I dislike a recirc. system with them even more.

                            J.C.
                            It's kept separate from the return loop so very little exposure (if any) to hot water. Only way it would be exposed to hot water would be through convection/conduction. Not enough to damage the diaphram IMO.

                            What that diagram doesn't show is a small storage tank to alleviate sandwiching effects

                            Comment


                            • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

                              Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                              HUH?


                              Doesn't the check seal the hot???
                              On one side, to keep the hot water from flowing from the return side of the loop, the feed is still open.

                              Yer confuziin' me....how could a recirc loop be closed from the tank and still allow flow to the fixtures?

                              You recirc back to the tank, check goes on the return to keep hot water from flowing from the return when a fixture is opened.

                              Either I'm having one big brain fart, ot we're talking two different languages.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Tankless HW heater vs tanked?

                                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                                Are you saying to install the TXT on the entrance side (Cold) of the Check and you will still get the TXT benefits?

                                J.C.
                                J.C., you're s'posed to install them on the cold side of the water heater, not the recirc.

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