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  • #16
    Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

    Parts of Phoenix AZ have residential fire sprinkler codes now too. EVERY new home from about 5 years back built in Scottsdale have sprinkler systems.


    On the pressure regulator, I have one on my house, it's set at 70 pounds. We had over 120 at the meter. I can run 12 rotor sprinkler heads in my front yard, do laundry AND take a nice shower, all at the same time.
    Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

      Plumberjr , You need to do a little traveling. It's a big country. Many homes [newer ones in Ca., have them] When We add the third story, on a remodel , sprinklers are then mandatory in our county. You can't assume, what happens in Your little Town, has an impact on the whole country! All the time, plumbers back East, preach that their codes and ways, rule the entire country. Maybe they wish it was so. In reality it doesn't. As You just discovered today.
      Be well Tool
      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

        Originally posted by plumberjr View Post
        your local law sure does like making enemies,huh---thats a large, unnecessary expense----honestly,please tell your city name and state, i want to do some research on why residential homes have fire systems--after ur post earlier, i happened to get called to our local firestation and i asked of this and they said i was misstaken---i explained and they said--thats a good thing, but the enforcers probably are ego freaks on a powertrip------why go above plumbing standards??????feel bad 4 ya----do you have to have it tested ever or is this limited fire with under 20 heads????did they put backflows on both lines also to be tested each year??????sounds like a possible dedicated fire main with a dedicated domestic main

        sorry about all the questions, just amazed they go that far---tooooo overkill
        did they also require a 200 ft deep tornado shelter with running water???
        I'm in King of Prussia, PA the governing body is Upper Merion Township. I'm not aware of any yearly certifications required but I probably have a fine coming in the mail. Below is the link to the Code Book.
        http://www.e-codes.generalcode.com/c...t=ws&cb=0975_A

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

          i can understand someone wanting a fire system in their home, and thats fine--but local code making homes have it?? to me its too much--whats next, you have to have a tornado shelter?? fire systems are very smart, what i am saying is that if i want to build a 5000 sq foot home on my property, i should be able to say i do or dont want to have a fire system--more water damage possible, more maintenance possible and a lot more of a expense

          fire systems are very smart and should be in every commercial building, but residential,that should be up to the homeowner:in my opinion--if u want fire protection, great;if not, dont whine when it burns

          i have this kind of opinion because i dont have fire lines in homes here and dont think it will happen any time soon--just seems like we are told we have to do everything a certain way--wheres the freedom---yes they protect the owner, but what if the owner doesnt want the protection???i guess i could keep yapping , but im not gonna make the code change

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

            fire sprinklers are being phased into new homes and large remodels.

            just like low flow toilets are the standard. we have to swap to low flow prior to the close of escrow out here.

            we have to install sesimic gas shut off valves for any work/ project beyond $10,000 or prior to the close of escrow.

            and when was the last time you purchased a new vehicle without an airbag

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

              Plumberjr,
              The 24 high rise I'm working on and the taller one going up down the street are both plastic/steel hybrid systems,anyting 2-1/2 and smaller is plastic.These are being constructed as multi million dollar condo's for sale(big thing these days)."Any structure where persons reside will have fire sprinklers" is enforced in one city of our county,no matter the size.I can appreciate your distate for plastic,I have the same.Unfortunately copper has become an unreasonable option.PM Aaron91 and ask him how much a stick of 8" is going for these days

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

                We have several communities in our area where sprinkler systems are required for new housing and have been for 30 years or so. Most are piped with blazemaster pvc which has it's good and bad points but it's been in service for a long time with no real product problems. We have currrently been using Wirsbo's new sprinkler system with good results.

                I applaud all you'se guy's still piping with copper. If you can get the customer to pay twice as much than by all means go for it. As for copper being a superior product all I have to say is High or Low PH and that pretty much sums up the argument for pex. Copper is not a lifetime product. It can and will be erroded over time by varying water conditions as well as erosion form water friction. It is suceptable to exterior corrosion as well. In earthquake country I'm surprised it's allowed to be used at all, considering pex is flexible and far less likley to rupture. In my city we probably average 3 to 4 copper pipe repairs a week due to pin holeing and fitting corrosion. I doubt we do 2 pex repairs in a year.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

                  Copper is the preferred "medium" in service, not practical to purchase brass adapters for shower valve replacements or repair work.

                  Add to the fact that you now wind up with a whole new set of fittings to inventory, not worth the trouble.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

                    Sprinkler systems are required in MANY MANY new communities through out the county where the public water system does not have the capacity to provide hydrants for fire protection and where in the new developments the houses are close together. In a new subdivision NFPA requires if the houses are closer than 25' apart the buildings be sprinklered, residential or not.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

                      remember when pb was the next best thing??look at it now--garbage

                      here is what i meant: i prefer copper
                      --copper looks better and IS stronger
                      ---once i press or solder, i can rest assured its not gonna leak
                      ---copper is time tested much longer than others
                      -- i am a serviceplumber/ manager, not a new construction plumber or remodeler which means i see more copper lines than anything else,so i like it all to look the same
                      --- i have no real problem with pvc --it works, i just trust copper inside over anything else
                      --i choose not to stock pex in my truck as theres not much around and i dont care for it

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem Solution

                        I finally had the time to get back to this problem. I tried adjusting the PRV in the basement. There was no change in pressure regardless of how much I adjusted the screw. (I did make sure to release the set screw prior to adjusting). At this point I thought the PRV needed to be replaced.

                        Before I called a plumber I opened the meter pit to verify the valves were open all the way based on some of your suggestion, they were fully open. Then I noticed another pressure relief value prior to the meter. I wasn't able to check the pressure between the meter and the PRV in the basement but I thought I adjust the meter pit PRV anyway. I turned the pressure up all the way, assumming this will be 75 psi that the PRV lists as the maximum pressure.

                        The pressure at the hose bib is now 60 psi. Up from the initial pressure of 35-40 psi. I can now run two showers with no noticible decrease in pressure. I am now happy with the water flow. Does anyone see any issues with my solution? I'm planning to monitor water pressure the next few day to ensure it's doesn't go above 60 psi.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

                          here is what i meant: i prefer copper
                          --copper looks better and IS stronger
                          ---once i press or solder, i can rest assured its not gonna leak
                          ---copper is time tested much longer than others
                          -- i am a serviceplumber/ manager, not a new construction plumber or remodeler which means i see more copper lines than anything else,so i like it all to look the same
                          --- i have no real problem with pvc --it works, i just trust copper inside over anything else
                          --i choose not to stock pex in my truck as theres not much around and i dont care for it

                          Copper is stronger how? As in, you can hang stuff in the basement on it? How strong does water pipe have to be? It's purpose is to convey water, not support things. In earthquake country copper is most definatly not stronger. It breaks where pex flexes.
                          Once I press or expand pex I can rest assured I will have no leaks and in fact It's been so long since I've had a pex leak I can't remember back that far. When was the last time you had to fix a bad solder joint. (don't lie, I'll Know)
                          Like it or not copper is on the way out. Mostly due to price, but also convieniance, speed and flexibility of the product.

                          If I never embraced new products and technologu I'd still be piping with Hub and Spigot and galvanized water lines.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

                            I've seen as many leaks as a serviceman on pex joints as solder joints. Both causes are I think installer related. Except some on pex where the fittings split. If you see that on copper it's from freezing. Pex needs to be upsized if flow is a concern, since the inside of the pipe is smaller. Seriously, compare a 3/4" copper next to a 1" pex, the ID is about identical. So lawn sprinkling means 1-1/4" if pex. Tub flow drops off for sillcock running, noticably. On the hot lines, even if you hang it on every joist, eventually it sags between the joists. Ugly ugly ugly. My opinion of the plumbing industry as a whole is that we're all turning into a bunch of DIYers who want everything as easy as we can get it. That said, I'm glad drains are done in plastic and not Cast Iron.
                            sigpic3:00, I mean 5:00, and work is done. Time to crack a cold one.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

                              NH has good points.

                              After working for a new residential shop where everything is about cheap, I got turned off by PEX.

                              I get solder leaks on occasion on wet lines, dry almost never.

                              When I worked for the shop I mentioned above, there were countless occasions where some kid overestimated PEX's flexibility and kinked the line rather than add a fitting.

                              There was also the fact that it usually comes in coils, no matter how hard you try to straighten it or clip it, it still looks like crap.

                              The advantage of PEX to soldering in a tight spot is somewhat negated by the cumbersome task of trying to put a crimp or expansion tool in the same tight spot.

                              Freezing/bursting, hands down, PEX wins.

                              When I see PEX stubs for fixtures, it makes me sad that so many don't even bother to sleeve it through the wall so it isn't just flopping around like garden hose.

                              Yeah, I know it's prolly gonna be the next "CI to PVC" evolution, but so far I'm lucky enough to not have to bid against other shops using PEX....so far.

                              Thankfully, I don't do new construction any more.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Water Pressure/Flow Problem

                                for someone to say copper is on the way out is wrong--u must not have a propress--copper has its many advantages and will be my fav forever--pex is junk--id rather use the time tested copper pipe than the junk pex. i do not like pex for many reasons--most of the time i see it, its because a customer is complaining that they dont get enough water out of it--from being undersized--
                                2--most guys that use it are so damn cheap that they cant put a couple extra fitts inline so it looks professional
                                3-i never see enough hangers on it--are hangers that much ?????
                                4--give pex 10 years and on this forum we will talk about it like we do about polybutylene--wait and see
                                5 i am a service plumber--pex makes homeowners capable of buying fitts and tools at home depot and they say"its only plastic-how bad can it be??"---now i dont know too many homeowners that would even think about soldering a fitting--they call me
                                now please--arent you guys supposed to support fellow members of the same trade??????pex is still new to plumbing, and as i said, give it some time and it will have a reputation as bad as kohler customer service and parts ordering

                                as plumbers we should care about the trade and reliable products for the customer(copper), not the cheapest crap we can buy(pex)
                                thats just my opinion, though

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