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Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

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  • #46
    Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

    We had a huge vocational department in the school I went to. You could learn anything from plumbing, hvac, electrical, landscaping, auto mechanics, auto body, and many others. I did not take these classes as I come from a family of plumbers and have been around it my whole life, and at 15 & 16 years old I wanted to be far far away from plumbing. It is there to introduce kids to the trade, not to show them how to repipe their parents galvanized piping. Although they probably could do that after a few years in the class. It's meant more to get kids interested in working with their hands and maybe learning theory and other things like reading prints.

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    • #47
      Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

      Originally posted by BHD View Post
      NHMaster3015 IN one way you confuse me more than any one on the DIY issuer,

      If I understand correctly you teach High School kids plumbing, is that correct?

      My guess is they do not have there Plumbing Apprenticed card, is that correct?

      and in past posts when the DIY discussion you basically said that unless one has met the requirements of the pluming board of the state one should not touch any thing on there own, (which normally means 4 years of on the job work experience, and some schooling and passing a test).

      SO what are your students trained for?
      I would venture to guess that most become DIY people, when it comes to there own plumbing, in the future, and yet even with your guidance by your own words there not adequately trained to DIY.

      Honestly I am not trying to pick a fight, but I do not understand the thinking,

      As a "teacher" of high school kids, I do not understand the position you take.
      I will make an attempt to ease your confusion.
      I teach a 2 year CTE plumbing program to high school juniors (1st year) and seniors (2nd year) We have an articulation agreement with the state that basically says that if a graduating senior with sucessfull completion of both years along with passing test scores will have passed the 1st year of the state apprentice program.
      So yes there is a possibility that some of these kids will not continue after graduation but most of them do.
      i teach all phases of plumbing over two years including the basics of dwv, state code, hvac, and the business aspects of running a plumbing shop. There are 52 state mandate competencies that each student must pass in order to recieve his certificate.
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      • #48
        Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

        Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
        " IN MY STATE " "IN BALTIMORE ,IN 1812,WE HUNG 1200 HANDY MEN "
        "IN BOSTON,I USE TO BAKE BEANS" " NY ,WE EAT THOSE BEANS"
        Ask ubama there's 52 states, There are different plumbing,and building codes .
        Nice of the Young feller to help a Gal in need !
        I thought Obama said 57 states.
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        • #49
          Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

          Originally posted by cpw View Post
          I think he teaches the HS kids to become plumbers not DIYers; and I assume they all have the appropriate state apprentices cards. At the HS I went to in NY, you had the option of vocational training for 1/2 the day; so you could learn how to become a truck mechanic etc. I assume his program is just like that.

          Teaching plumbing otherwise would make no sense; you might as well use the time to teach the kids some other skill.
          With 4 hours sleep under my belt, I feel like a 20 yr old on a Saturday morning...rough night.

          Just wanted to thank you for not taking the high road & painting me out to be a villain.
          Though I know you probably don't completely agree with me, I had been sure I was going to hop back to this thread today to see a slew of politically correct "let's all hate the mean plumber" routines.

          Truth is, the process to become a plumber is almost as brutal as a medical internship..not quite, but there are similarities.

          College would be an easier route, you really have to WANT to be a plumber to do this.
          I CONSCIOUSLY made an educated decision to become a plumber over going to college on a grant.

          We drill concrete, crawl around under homes in 10 degree's & in 120 degree attics, we lug 4" cast iron through trenches, we burn ourselves as we learn the tricks to soldering (I have scars for life), we get poo in our faces when we cut drains to repair leaks, we do many things we don't want to do.
          During this process, we also have to attend school after exhaustive days of work & pay for it out of an apprentices salary.

          All the while reminding ourselves that once our apprenticeship is done in a few years, we have a solid career, a better life.

          The day I passed the state exam is quite probably one of the best days of my life, getting married being the only thing above it.

          I'd worked VERY hard, passed the test of time & stamina, studied the code book late hours and got through it.

          I can't say that something as simple as an angle stop is all that big a deal, especially not a compression stop.

          What got the attention of another member, and mine after the fact...is that we have people that make more money than a plumber who will hop online and get free advice from a very small handful of plumbers that are willing to sell out all that hard earned experience, all for a pat on the back and a chance to look good..impress themselve & show how much "smarter" they are than the other plumbers.

          I don't like being unpopular, not at all.

          I much less like watching my trade & HARD earned license become reduced to a simple token.

          What some don't realize is that they may have a 30 yr list of developed clients, they never had to fight the constant stream of DIY'ers calling them on their ad budget to get an idea of what they save as they explore the option of getting free interactive step by step directions on how to avoid paying someone newer in the trade to do it the right way, legally.

          Rather than acknowledge this, they boast about it.
          All the while, promoting the selling out of the very trade that made them a living for the sake of painting themself as a hero to homeowners.

          Nice.

          As I started in this trade, Ridgid was known as a hardcore professional plumbers tool, the name was equated with serious plumbers and their tools.
          Having a pipe wrench that didn't have Ridgids name on it meant you'd cut corners, licensed guys would pull you to the side and suggest you use the weekends beer money and get them.

          I now see an irony when other members here state on Ridgids behalf that Ridgid encourages blatent DIY plumbing, dunno if they do or don't, but I certainly don't think the plumbers I was groomed into the trade with would view that highly.

          "Ask the plumbers" sounds like a great way for people to come online to a PROFESSIONAL plumbing forum and get answers to questions regarding what kind of plumber they may need, why the water pipes are making noise, or where to find a reputable plumber.

          I highly doubt Ridgid would reply openly to it's actual stance on this.

          I find myself wondering though, have they forgotten the very trade that made them what they are?

          As Home Depot, Lowes and HGTV have proven what an immense market DIY has, I find myself hoping that a symbol, an icon of pride in my trade hasn't sold out.
          Last edited by DuckButter; 08-18-2008, 11:22 AM.

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          • #50
            Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

            I don't think most people realize the comittment that an apprentice has to make. 144 hrs of schooling per year which usually breaks down to two nights a week 3 hrs a class along with 2000 hrs per year (full time employment) working under a master or journeyman. The apprentice card needs to be filled out daily and at least in our state the apprentice has to take and pass with a 70 or better at least 10 examinations to pass on to the next year. Oh and if their employer won't pay for the course you have to cough up $650.00 plus another $ 150.00 for books.

            So yes, Duck, I and many others of us have a real problem with giving a diy guy step by step instructions on how to take the money out of my wallet.
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            • #51
              Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

              So the reason I posted the Baltimore resolution is because a hundred years ago plumbers were having the same issues with unlicensed and unqalified plumbers along with manufacturers and wholesalers willing to aid and abet them. When we all sit around a ***** about how our trade is going down the toilet, we need to take a very close look at ourselves first. Sure maybe your business is booming and you don't think the diy crowd is hurting you, and maybe it isn't, but believe me it's hurting someone else somewhere and I like to think that as professionals in the trade we will all pull together to protect our own. That's why I only offer very vague advice at best on any of the boards and occasionally (ok, all the time) get into big arguments with diy'ers and plumbers alike.
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              • #52
                Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

                I'll be shaving my chest hairs, the gray ones before all of this is over with.
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                • #53
                  Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

                  Wow, I missed this thread simply because the title of it was uninteresting. Another DIYer with a basic question. But it turned quickly into a heated debate.....HOW ON EARTH WAS I NOT IN ON THIS ONE?

                  So to make up for lost time....brass ferrules are extremely explosive and working on them is regarded as highly dangerous radioactive work, only to be done by certified master plumbers of the 12th degree black belt variety.

                  ....NOT! I don't see a problem with helping a lady change a nut and ferrule, nobody is forced to give advice, but I see nothing wrong with giving advice on a minor repair like this.
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                  • #54
                    Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

                    i have never used one of the fancy pullers,they might do a good job.
                    i usually cut the ferralle and then resize with my flare block
                    I like it like that !
                    and, It's like that now!!!!!!!!!!!!

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                    • #55
                      Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

                      I agree, one simple plumbing repair, no biggy.

                      Then you type the word "plumbing DIY" into your web browser and count the plethora of thousands of DIY requests on any given number of forums daily.

                      Comparatively speaking, tell me the last time you watched a homeowner walk into a plumbing supply and ask the plumbers in line how to do their own faucet installation.
                      Then ask yourself why it's different on the internet.

                      One simple repair, no big deal.
                      Tens of thousands and you have to start wondering what that adds up to.

                      Can I change that?
                      Nope.

                      All I can do is mention it, state my thoughts, move on through the list of unreturned estimates and wonder why the smaller jobs keep getting fewer and fewer as I dole out money advertizing to pull in new business.

                      Two years ago I was getting one in three to four calls after prcing them.
                      Now I'm closer to one in ten.

                      I thrive on repeat and referral customers, new business is costing a fortune.
                      For them I'm grateful.

                      I could go on and on, a few months ago I had a woman who actually expected me to offer a "free estimate", I obliged, showed up to meet her boyfriend who somehow was under the impression I'd arrived to give hiom a brief tutorial on how to do his own plumbing in their bath remnodel, this has been an increasing trend.

                      Another couple last month calling me under the guise that I'd do the fixture replacements, they just wanted my suggestions on what to buy and where to go.

                      The calls are unreturned, just another name on the list.
                      The hubby had intimated he might do "some" of the work.

                      Those are just two, knots in my stomache as I call back estimates, hoping to get at least something back for the advertizing.

                      One simple stop repair, no biggy, nope, not just one...do that web search.

                      Why pay a plumber when you can get him to walk you through it step by step online?

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                      • #56
                        Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

                        Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                        Wow, I missed this thread simply because the title of it was uninteresting. Another DIYer with a basic question. But it turned quickly into a heated debate.....HOW ON EARTH WAS I NOT IN ON THIS ONE?

                        So to make up for lost time....brass ferrules are extremely explosive and working on them is regarded as highly dangerous radioactive work, only to be done by certified master plumbers of the 12th degree black belt variety.

                        ....NOT! I don't see a problem with helping a lady change a nut and ferrule, nobody is forced to give advice, but I see nothing wrong with giving advice on a minor repair like this.
                        I would get $135.00 to do that job.
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                        • #57
                          Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

                          I hear you loud and clear Mark! I personally do not answer most of these DIYer questions as you may have noticed. I guess that's why I didn't even click on this thread until now.
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                          • #58
                            Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

                            I feel bad cause I was just spoiling for a fight yesterday and totally missed this one

                            Story of my life.. The party I missed last night
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                            • #59
                              Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

                              I was on this forum and thought it was like the woodworking one. Sorry I did not know that it was for professional plumbers only.
                              I did ask a question in another section of this forum but will be sure not to intrude again.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Using old ferrule and nut with new angle stop valve

                                What the hell happened here?....this place used to be fun

                                Blow it up into something bigger. Call your congressman, petition the State Board, make it into a federal case if you like

                                It's still just a nut and ferrule a thousand miles away in Little Rock, AR

                                There isn't enough medication to keep my hair from falling out or to quell the ulcers if I start to sweat what Miss Pedals does in her bathroom

                                Maybe I'm missing the big picture.... but you know what?...I'm OK with that

                                Maybe we can convince her to join in the medical advice forum and discuss things like drug interactions or what type of diet pills to avoid

                                Would that make you all feel better?

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