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  • #16
    Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

    A couple of other suggestions ...

    Has it been the same HVAC/Plumber company that has been replacing these units? Maybe it is time to look elsewhere?

    Back to the tankless ... if you like what you find, the final determination will be to bring a plumber/HVAC company out to see if it is even possible. I had four folks give me quotes for my install before I settled on an installer. I went with a Rinnai 75LS.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

      there was a segment on the local news here that suggested that sure you will save money on energy costs with a tankless but the cost to purchase a tankless will take up to 22 years to recover so Consumer Reports who did the segment suggested to not go with tankless at this point.

      They basically said it's a big misnomer that you get instant hot water and if you are just turing on the hot for shaving, etc you may not actually get hot water, etc.

      I have a rental PV Rheem gas water hot water that was installed in July as part of an A/C installation. (There wasn't a circuit in the furnace room to feed outside for the A/C unit so they fed off the line that went to the old electric water heater (circa 1995 according to one installer that I got a quote on) and I did not want to rip open the ceiling to feed another line from the box). I figured the costs savings for using gas instead of electricity would probably pay for the rental.

      Once the priceless on the tankless drop I might consider replacing the rental unit. I have heard that there are issues with installing tankless in cold climates and that you need to have a wound up coil long enough for the water to go through (20-30') while is is warming up before it goes to your faucets, etc Is that true? or iis it just a box on the wall that you put cold in and hot comes out?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

        It's a "box on the wall".

        What your news channel failed to point out...

        Tankless's save roughly 30% of the water heating bill.

        For single guy that uses $15 a month in hot water, it'll take at least 22 years at least to make back the added 2K it may cost over a powervent.

        For a family of six that uses $80 a month, the savings might be made up in as little as 5 years.

        Location & incoming water temperatures make a huge difference as well, someone in FLA won't pay as much for hot water in the winter as someone from New England and points north.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

          The irony...
          The starter of this thread is long gone, we get that all the time.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

            Maybe we should refer to them as "One Post Wonders"
            "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
            John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

              Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
              The irony...
              The starter of this thread is long gone, we get that all the time.
              I do believe the irony is that you were the first to respond with a "helpful" answer on the ask the experts section.

              The person only asked today. Give them a chance to reply. Maybe you'll be surprised
              I love my plumber

              "My Hero"

              Welcome, Phoebe Jacqueline!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

                Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
                I do believe the irony is that you were the first to respond with a "helpful" answer on the ask the experts section.

                The person only asked today. Give them a chance to reply. Maybe you'll be surprised
                Joey, there is a line between helping and offering advice to do something you shouldn't.

                I won't take work from my brothers, nor will I walk a homeowner or potential unlicensed hack through something they have no place doing.

                He has a plumber, he isn't asking how to install plumbing, there is a VAST difference.

                I will not tutor someone how to do their own plumbing, nor will I offer a price for an anomymous inquiry so they might have fuel for leverage against a plumber.

                There are legitimate questions, this one had absolutely no details or advice given that crossed that line.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

                  Originally posted by Nevada plumber View Post
                  I don't live in an area with natural gas or power vent water heaters, so take my comments with a grain of salt. I think DuckButter is steering you in the right direction with saying look at tankless water heaters. You've spent a lot of money on water heaters in a short amount of time. For a bit more money, you can get a good quality tankless and be done with it. I like the Rinnai units myself. (Propane in my area.)

                  Yes, you will always here people complain that you need to flush the units with vinegar on occasion to keep them working right. So what? Do these same people complain about having to change the filters in the air conditioner, or changing the oil in the cars? Expensive pieces of equipment require maintenance to keep them running properly.
                  You know people,they are as dump as cows.Yeah,they will change an oil filter because it's been repeatedly griven into their skulls.Air conditioning filter,only 1 or 2 out of ten replace when they should,if at all.An air conditioning unit doesn't stop working if you'r bad with it's maintenance.People are going to be very slow in monitoring "one more thing".

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

                    Originally posted by MrsSeatDown View Post
                    I do believe the irony is that you were the first to respond with a "helpful" answer on the ask the experts section.

                    The person only asked today. Give them a chance to reply. Maybe you'll be surprised
                    Oh great,now look what you've done.Great concept,missed your timing.

                    Good luck getting Ebineezer to put another lump of coal on the fire after that.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

                      Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                      You know people,they are as dump as cows.Yeah,they will change an oil filter because it's been repeatedly griven into their skulls.Air conditioning filter,only 1 or 2 out of ten replace when they should,if at all.An air conditioning unit doesn't stop working if you'r bad with it's maintenance.People are going to be very slow in monitoring "one more thing".
                      I think you could have said this with a bit more tact ...

                      Now, if you want to say that for the past X years you have installed Y tankless units and have Z service calls and hence you would not recommend them ... now you have a different story.

                      I bet though for the past X years you have installed Y tank units and have had Z service calls ... does that mean then you would not recommend tank based units either?

                      Remember tankless units are basically the norm on the other side of the world, this technology is nothing new, just new in North America.

                      If you are going to come out and say that tankless is high maintenance, then provide your data.

                      If you can prove that people have 3 stomaches, 4 legs, and eat grass, etc, then maybe people are cows ... but if "cows" can learn how to change their oil, they could probably learn to flush their tankless water heaters

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

                        theoak,

                        How many tankless water heaters have you installed?
                        Which brands?
                        How many PowerVent water heaters have you installed?
                        Atmospheric "regular" vent?
                        Direct Vent?
                        How many electric?
                        Which brands?
                        How many times have you calculated fixtures, amount of people, bedrooms, bathrooms, incoming water temperature to calculate the best solution for a customer?

                        Your experience with a tankless water heater does not give you experience in plumbing.

                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

                          I am not saying that it does ...

                          I was simply asking the poster to put data behind their statements.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!! - UPDATE!!

                            Id like to thank everyone for their replies, it was quite fascinating reading them all, especially the one's that say I am a "one post wonder" or something to that affect. Anyway, a new Power Vent Water Heater installed was $1475.90 and a new electric water heater (5500/5500) was $400; It was actually about $490, but the box was opened and Home Depot gave me a discount when I asked (I also had 3 estimates for the power vent, they were all within a couple hundred dollars) I spent about $180 in materials to run a 220 line and a couple other things. I did some simple math, about $1500 for something that would last about 5 years; We are on our third in less than 15!! (that's $300 per year, plus usage) My GE has a 12 year warranty, so even it goes in 10, that just saved me $1500 and I am sure it would cost several hundered dollars more five years from now. I subtracted the intial $600, so in 10 years, rather than spending $3000.00, I am spening only $600 for a savings of $2400.00. Now I know it costs more to run electric than gas, but the cost of gas has increased to the point where there is no signifigant difference in our area and with both my sons moving or about to move out, and everything else in the house is gas, i figured it was well worth it. even if i broke my cost savings down to $240 p/year for equipment, AND I paid $300 more per year in electric, which i seriously doubt we will, it would still be worth every penny to not have to deal with what sounds like a plane taking off everytime it turns on and runs for awhile, and i am constantly worrying if we have or do not have water, and i am not having to turn it on and off to reset etc, it will be WELL worth it. In my calculations, I will probably spend right around the same amount to run, minus all the BS that comes with the power vent - and in doing a LOT of research, it seems as if all Power Vents, regardless of whether or not they are AO Smith or not, have a lot of issues. Also, in doing due dilligence in reagrds to tankless, there does seem to be a lot of issues with volume and temperature variance. I read of people using buckets to contain the water that was constantly being wasted due to temp variances (it seems to a lot of folks that getting warm water is sometimes very difficult) and also people with larger homes having to install another water heater under their kitchen sink to help the tankless. I want less hassle, not more and no maintenace. Thanks again to all who replied, i truly did learn a lot and special thanks to the gentleman who suggested using sandpaper rather than a toothbrush.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!!

                              Originally posted by theoak View Post
                              I am not saying that it does ...

                              I was simply asking the poster to put data behind their statements.
                              Oh wow,
                              because of fwappy's thank you I've caught up with Oak's interest in my post.

                              Sorry Oak,I'm a little short on words with my lack of attention span for one reason or another

                              J.C. has once again said more than enough to satisfy my interest in this.

                              Politics,religion and tankless.Watch the crowd speculate on shadows.Then lobb a hand grenade into the mass every once in a while.I have my opinion just like everyone else.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Power Vent Water Heater - HELP!! - UPDATE!!

                                I hereby respectfully eat crow, and offer my thanks for the diligent followup.
                                You did a lot of homework there...the only question I have is the actual cost per unit in your area for electric vs gas.
                                Therms vs Kw...what are the costs?
                                Originally posted by fwappy1@yahoo.com View Post
                                Id like to thank everyone for their replies, it was quite fascinating reading them all, especially the one's that say I am a "one post wonder" or something to that affect. Anyway, a new Power Vent Water Heater installed was $1475.90 and a new electric water heater (5500/5500) was $400; It was actually about $490, but the box was opened and Home Depot gave me a discount when I asked (I also had 3 estimates for the power vent, they were all within a couple hundred dollars) I spent about $180 in materials to run a 220 line and a couple other things. I did some simple math, about $1500 for something that would last about 5 years; We are on our third in less than 15!! (that's $300 per year, plus usage) My GE has a 12 year warranty, so even it goes in 10, that just saved me $1500 and I am sure it would cost several hundered dollars more five years from now. I subtracted the intial $600, so in 10 years, rather than spending $3000.00, I am spening only $600 for a savings of $2400.00. Now I know it costs more to run electric than gas, but the cost of gas has increased to the point where there is no signifigant difference in our area and with both my sons moving or about to move out, and everything else in the house is gas, i figured it was well worth it. even if i broke my cost savings down to $240 p/year for equipment, AND I paid $300 more per year in electric, which i seriously doubt we will, it would still be worth every penny to not have to deal with what sounds like a plane taking off everytime it turns on and runs for awhile, and i am constantly worrying if we have or do not have water, and i am not having to turn it on and off to reset etc, it will be WELL worth it. In my calculations, I will probably spend right around the same amount to run, minus all the BS that comes with the power vent - and in doing a LOT of research, it seems as if all Power Vents, regardless of whether or not they are AO Smith or not, have a lot of issues. Also, in doing due dilligence in reagrds to tankless, there does seem to be a lot of issues with volume and temperature variance. I read of people using buckets to contain the water that was constantly being wasted due to temp variances (it seems to a lot of folks that getting warm water is sometimes very difficult) and also people with larger homes having to install another water heater under their kitchen sink to help the tankless. I want less hassle, not more and no maintenace. Thanks again to all who replied, i truly did learn a lot and special thanks to the gentleman who suggested using sandpaper rather than a toothbrush.

                                Comment

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