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  • #16
    Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
    having a tank prior to the tankless will fool the tankless into thinking the water is already hot and not cause the tankless to fire.

    rick.
    Thats an awesome idea, Rick. If it would actually work that way.

    One if the things about the tankless that bothers me is when the kids turn on the hot water for just a few seconds, then off again. The heater goes through its entire firing sequence for nothing.

    If the hot water before the tankless would cause it not to fire, until the 6 gal. is depleted, upon which the tankless would fire and deliver hot water until the call for heat is lost, would be an ideal sequence of operation. But I suspect the tankless would not fire upon depletion of the 6 gal. due to a flow switch already being closed or opened.

    Andy

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    • #17
      Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

      One scenerio is to thermostatically mix off the 6, if the tankless will not meet demand in winter.
      Last edited by stokefire7; 10-06-2008, 07:48 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

        Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
        Thats an awesome idea, Rick. If it would actually work that way.

        One if the things about the tankless that bothers me is when the kids turn on the hot water for just a few seconds, then off again. The heater goes through its entire firing sequence for nothing.

        If the hot water before the tankless would cause it not to fire, until the 6 gal. is depleted, upon which the tankless would fire and deliver hot water until the call for heat is lost, would be an ideal sequence of operation. But I suspect the tankless would not fire upon depletion of the 6 gal. due to a flow switch already being closed or opened.

        Andy
        This is EXACTLY why I'm going on about installing the tank on the inlet.

        I have to guess the warranty is regarding the Rinnai itself heating the water for the recirc.
        If the loop were set to feed hot into the tankless, the tankless wouldn't even start to cycle until the tanks water started running colder.

        The tanks water is heated anyway, it would merely serve to stop the tankless from firing until the 6 gallons were depleted enough to trigger the tankless.

        I could just easily look online and scrutinize the warranty regarding the tankless not having to heat the recirc water I s'pose, but I'm lazy.

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        • #19
          Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

          It's redundant either before or after the tankless. The manual shows after, could they really put it before ? After all, their trying to sell their take on heating water. IMO the way to optimize the install, is before with mixing. Utilizing the tank in cold months. Mike

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          • #20
            Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

            So here we have a tankless heater, a 6 gallon tank, re-circ pump and controls, miscellaneous piping and valves plus labor to install all to save how much money? Here we go all over again. The names of the innocent have been changed to protect the quilty.
            sigpic

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            • #21
              Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              So here we have a tankless heater, a 6 gallon tank, re-circ pump and controls, miscellaneous piping and valves plus labor to install all to save how much money? Here we go all over again. The names of the innocent have been changed to protect the quilty.
              Just to "clear my name", Andy's (RuudAC) state has different licensing requirements.
              His HVAC license is legit to do gas & venting, the water is s'posed to be a plumber.

              I don't think there's a person on this forum who doesn't know I'd be ranting and raving here if this were some new member or a homeowner.

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              • #22
                Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                So here we have a tankless heater, a 6 gallon tank, re-circ pump and controls, miscellaneous piping and valves plus labor to install all to save how much money?
                Quite the contrary. I'm trying to see how much time and money I can waste. And see how much gobbledygook I can clutter my basement up with.

                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                Just to "clear my name", Andy's (RuudAC) state has different licensing requirements.
                His HVAC license is legit to do gas & venting, the water is s'posed to be a plumber.
                Thats exactly right Duck. Here, a homeowner can do their own stuff just as long as its in their primary residence. I could not do all of this in a rental, even with my mechanical license because of the water piping only. In some areas I can do simple water heater changeouts, which I choose not to. But, theres no where I could do a job this complex for a customer, because of the water piping.

                Does anyone have any thoughts on how many T&P's will be required?

                Andy

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                • #23
                  Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

                  Recirculation would cost natural gas, or whatever your fuel is, to keep the water in the lines hot.

                  On the flip side, with no recirculation, you would waste water to purge the cold water out of the lines before the water got hot.

                  Pick your poison I guess ...

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                  • #24
                    Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

                    Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
                    Quite the contrary. I'm trying to see how much time and money I can waste. And see how much gobbledygook I can clutter my basement up with.



                    Thats exactly right Duck. Here, a homeowner can do their own stuff just as long as its in their primary residence. I could not do all of this in a rental, even with my mechanical license because of the water piping only. In some areas I can do simple water heater changeouts, which I choose not to. But, theres no where I could do a job this complex for a customer, because of the water piping.

                    Does anyone have any thoughts on how many T&P's will be required?

                    Andy
                    Both.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

                      Originally posted by theoak View Post
                      Recirculation would cost natural gas, or whatever your fuel is, to keep the water in the lines hot.

                      On the flip side, with no recirculation, you would waste water to purge the cold water out of the lines before the water got hot.

                      Pick your poison I guess ...
                      His focus is convenience, the perfect tankless customer.
                      He's going with a gravity recirc, no pump, less energy.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        So here we have a tankless heater, a 6 gallon tank, re-circ pump and controls, miscellaneous piping and valves plus labor to install all to save how much money? Here we go all over again. The names of the innocent have been changed to protect the quilty.
                        parts=wholesale,labor=free,lubing up momma= priceless

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Piping a small electric tank with tankless

                          Are you really considering gravity? I would like to see a picture (drawing) of this since it sounds like your going to precede the 6 gallon heater before the tankless. For a gravity system to work you need to have an unobstructed initial vertical rise. The tankless internal piping may not allow this to work hence the thought about putting the tank after the heater. By the way where we are located our code requires a separate T and P for each heater and they need to be piped separately to the exterior of the structure. Things may be different in your area due the climate.

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