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  • #46
    Re: My tankless experience summary

    Originally posted by DELCASE View Post
    We have a ice storm moving in tonight
    sure makes me wish i had a gas water heater that wouldnt come on without power
    Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
    Better start filling up some containers just in case.
    I see people using sparkletts water bottles on TV when there's an event on it's way.
    This has been discussed in other threads too ... there are usually ways around things ...

    Rinnai advertises a brand name UPS that would give you about 80 minutes of hot water at 2.5 gallons per minute. That is around 200 gallons of hot water. So assuming you still have water and natural gas ... there would be plenty of hot water. The advertised UPS is probably an average one. With a larger UPS, that would mean more hot water.

    In the defense of a tank though, in the event that water and gas service has been interrupted ... you have 40/50/whatever gallons of clean water in storage already ... that is hard to beat.

    If you live in an area prone to natural disasters and hence water and natural gas outages, tankless as a single solution may not be advisable. Perhaps paired with another solution or even not used at all ...

    Tankless is not the be all end all of water heaters ... it depends on the application it is installed in and the area.

    It has been great for me obviously

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: My tankless experience summary

      Time for February results.

      Natural Gas

      This year: 120 therms

      Last year: 135 therms

      A 11% difference.

      Combined therm savings to date: 5%
      Combined dollar savings to date: 5%

      Looking back on my bills, December, January and February are my big natural gas months with January being the largest.

      With the tank I used 354 therms.
      With the tankless I used 349 therms.

      With that being said for both December and February I had a 11% savings. January's bill killed me.

      I suspect that with 15% more heating space this year due to my add on, it finally caught up to me.

      Looking at the therms for next month and what has happened thus far, I should be expecting another 11% savings.

      I am still ahead including the added costs with the add on. This is what I was hoping.

      Some other observations ...

      With three showers going I finally experienced a drop in pressure. With that being said the temperature of the water did not change. It happened once with my wife also. Her comments were to the effect "Hey, this is not that bad, at least the temperature is the same." My experience was the same. Due to the fact that the temperature did not change I am more inclined to think that I simply did not have the overall water pressure. I never experienced this in the summer months however. Can water pressure from the city vary over the year?

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: My tankless experience summary

        the tankless will throttle down the water flow to maintain the temperature you set it for.

        as long as you have a modern shower valve that has an anti scald feature, the temperature should balance out as the cold pressure will also drop.

        the high end thermostatic valves will maintain a more accurate setting than a pressure balancing valve.

        my tankless saved me $5.00 in gas last month.

        hate to see how much water i wasted trying to get it up to temperature.

        i wasted a lot of time and money to prove what i already knew.

        at a $5.00 savings a month, the heater will never pay off in anyones lifetime. i'll go on record, if my pilot lite on my tank heater was not running 24/7, the tank heater would have been cheaper than the tankless.

        my washing machine doesn't like the tankless either.

        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: My tankless experience summary

          If i read your post right the only advantage to a tankless would be.
          Say you had a 15 year old boy that would stay in the shower until the hot water ran out,so now after a 3hr shower ,{ he had to stop to eat} you can get in and still have a hot shower..

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: My tankless experience summary

            I am always amazed at the folks that will read these results and either not believe them or be totally surprised by them, when all of this information has been available to them on the web and on manufacturers sites from the beginning.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: My tankless experience summary

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              the tankless will throttle down the water flow to maintain the temperature you set it for.

              as long as you have a modern shower valve that has an anti scald feature, the temperature should balance out as the cold pressure will also drop.

              the high end thermostatic valves will maintain a more accurate setting than a pressure balancing valve.

              my tankless saved me $5.00 in gas last month.

              hate to see how much water i wasted trying to get it up to temperature.

              i wasted a lot of time and money to prove what i already knew.

              at a $5.00 savings a month, the heater will never pay off in anyones lifetime. i'll go on record, if my pilot lite on my tank heater was not running 24/7, the tank heater would have been cheaper than the tankless.

              my washing machine doesn't like the tankless either.

              rick.
              To my knowledge I do not have an anti-scalding shower head. It was never advertised as that. If fact there were models that did advertise it, and models that did not, I selected the model that did not just because I like it better. Unless this is a standard required feature now, I do not think my shower head has that feature.

              Next time it happens (if it happens) I should try turning the shower off and just running the cold out of the tap. This would bypass the the anti-scalding if my shower head has it. If the cold water flow eventually picks up, I would think this would be a gauge if it was overall water pressure or not. Correct me if I am wrong.

              If I do have an anti-scalding shower head ... then it is really cool and worked wonderfully!

              Looking at my water usage over the past 6 months, it has been more, but I would say that it hasn't been A LOT more. This is hard to gauge though as I have a larger family now too ...

              With that being said, were you not the one that has $14 a month natural gas bills (insanely jealous by the way)? My tank was doing great until my family started growing too much to for it to keep up. Tankless is not for everyone or every application. I have always stated this. With your family and situation a tankless just may not make sense. I am really okay with that

              Originally posted by DELCASE View Post
              If i read your post right the only advantage to a tankless would be.
              Say you had a 15 year old boy that would stay in the shower until the hot water ran out,so now after a 3hr shower ,{ he had to stop to eat} you can get in and still have a hot shower..
              As I stated in the first post ... I have a family of 7. There are times (usually every Sunday) where there could be as many as 6 people that have showered (or bathed), brushed teeth, ran dishwasher, did a small load of laundry, etc, before I get in the shower. I always have hot water.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: My tankless experience summary

                I have added each month summary, just the numbers, to the first post. It makes the first post really long, but does allow one to briefly look at the results versus having to go through the whole thread.

                FYI

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: My tankless experience summary

                  anti scald valves have been required here since the late 80's on all residential units. hospitals, retirement homes and schools have been much longer.

                  strictly a bath tub doesn't require the anti scald.

                  it's the valve,not the head that has the balancing spool or thermostatic cartridge. the thermostatic valves are more expensive and in my opinion more problematic. most people never cycle the temperature and the valve gets tight. a replacement cartridge can run $200-300. while a replacement balancing spool or cartridge runs around $50 on up.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: My tankless experience summary

                    I just forward this to customers who ask about tankless now.

                    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/a...heaters-ov.htm

                    I think I found this here, may have been another message board. I was surprised it didn't surface in this thread yet.

                    It details all the points we've been telling folks in our area and homeowners trust Consumers Reports.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: My tankless experience summary

                      For what it is worth ... I have attached a screen shot of my therm usage from my natural gas suppliers web site.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: My tankless experience summary

                        A bunch of updates:

                        January

                        Water

                        This year: 1580 therms
                        Last year: 1610 therms

                        March

                        Natural Gas


                        This year: 92 therms
                        Last year: 88 therms

                        A -5% difference.

                        Water

                        This year: 1250 therms
                        Last year: 1530 therms

                        April Natural Gas

                        This year: 71 therms
                        Last year: 82 therms

                        A 13% difference.

                        Combined therm savings to date: 5%
                        Combined dollar savings to date: 5%

                        Some Analysis:

                        Repeated reminder that my home now has about 15% more heated space due to my add on last summer; hence, it makes sense my furnace is going to work harder and use more natural gas to keep the home warm.

                        Looking at my water usage in January, it was pretty much the same as last year. So the low bill in December and the higher bill in January can pretty much be attributed to the colder weather and my furnace having to work harder to keep my now larger home warm.

                        In March I actually had a decrease (or no savings) of about 5%. The numbers were looking real good throughout the month; however, near the last week or so of my billing cycle we were hit with an unseasonal cold snap. I think much of the country was actually. So it dipped down. Looking at the water usage for March, there was actually quite a drop. I have a feeling that had the water usage been higher, I could have experienced a higher negative like I had in January. Again, for me, this pointing to the extra work that my furnace now has.

                        In April, things have dropped nicely by 13%. I even had an extra billing day this year versus last year.

                        Thus far my combined therm and dollar savings seems to be maintaining a steady 5%. With my addition, my hope was to break even. With winter pretty much come and gone, I am pretty confident this will be the case!

                        I anticipate with the weather starting to warm up now that monthly savings will probably stay in the low teens ...

                        Attached is a nice little chart that my gas company does that sums things up pretty nicely. Just as a reminder the tankless was installed at the end of July.

                        I have updated the first post accordingly.
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by theoak; 04-15-2009, 11:43 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: My tankless experience summary

                          Another little interesting tidbit of information ...

                          My water company has since updated their web site. I have included a screen shot which details my water usage.

                          If you total the water I used from Sept 2007 to Mar 2008 (I had a tank during this period) and for Sept 2008 to Mar 2009 (I now have the tankless), I have actually used 50 units of water less.

                          Sept 2007 to Mar 2008: 6710
                          Sept 2008 to Mar 2009: 6660

                          If I take some liberties, my water usage has not changed.

                          A common "argument" against tankless water heaters is "how much longer" it is going to take to get the water and "how much water you are going to waste because of the wait" accordingly.

                          I can only speak for my data and my specific application. I also do not have an account for every drop of water. With that being said, just looking at the numbers, as far as water waste is concerned, thus far, there does not seem to be an increased water usage.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by theoak; 05-06-2009, 06:30 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: My tankless experience summary

                            It would be a better gas chart if they went back 13 months and showed the usage from last April. Oh well!

                            Looks pretty thorough!

                            Still not convinced the units will last long enough to make the investment good. Which is a main selling point. The government is going to let us keep more of our money if we switch though. I guess that may be the tipping point.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: My tankless experience summary

                              Unfortunately I installed between government tax credits. The current tax credit I believe is 30% of the full purchase and installation price up to a maximum of $1500. That would shorten the pay back time nicely ...

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: My tankless experience summary

                                I will say I am seeing a huge savings with my tankless. We had an old gas heater that was in the house over 20 years we've been here so was no where near efficient. It was also leaking in the uninsulated crawl space for so long it had sunk slightly in the mud hole it was sitting in.

                                The only problem I am having with our tankless is the guy installed in at the opposite end of the crawl space so it was close to the gas service. We have a good 40 or 45 feet of 3/4" pipe between it and the first facet. That is an awful lot of water to run out the pipe before we get the hot stuff. We were waiting about a minute 15 seconds for hot water before I installed a circulating loop. Now we wait about 40 seconds.

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