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  • Hot Water Heater & Valves

    I am getting ready to replace my water heater and was wondering if it is typical to install valves on both the hot and cold lines above the tank? Or is it just for the cold?
    Thanks

  • #2
    Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

    Valve on both ends....the next guy working on them will thank you.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

      Its typical to hire a licensed plumber to install a water heater.
      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

        Cold only my friend.Safety before convienience for the future service plumber.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
          cold only my friend.safety before convienience for the future service plumber.
          thank you!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

            Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
            Cold only my friend.Safety before convienience for the future service plumber.
            Adam,

            Can you explain why (i.e., why is the hot shutoff unsafe)? My house has a valve on both sides (with a TXT between the cold input and cold shutoff).

            Charles

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

              Originally posted by doubleD View Post
              Valve on both ends....the next guy working on them will thank you.
              Why put a valve on hot and cold water lines when one valve on the cold side is all you need to turn hot water off to building that that water heater services. Besides that it is a waste of time and material. One valve on hot side is all you need.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

                Valve on the cold side only. Much easier to change the water heater when it needs it if the valve is still in good shape. A valve on the hot side makes no sense what so ever!
                Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

                  A valve on both the cold and hot sure makes it easy to air lock to change elements on a electric heater

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

                    Originally posted by Kungur View Post
                    I am getting ready to replace my water heater and was wondering if it is typical to install valves on both the hot and cold lines above the tank? Or is it just for the cold?
                    Thanks
                    Follow to the end of this posting

                    Originally posted by doubleD View Post
                    Valve on both ends....the next guy working on them will thank you.

                    Do you know what danger is?


                    Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                    Its typical to hire a licensed plumber to install a water heater.

                    Correct.

                    Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                    Cold only my friend.Safety before convienience for the future service plumber.

                    Correct, and you know where I'm going with this.

                    Originally posted by cpw View Post
                    Adam,

                    Can you explain why (i.e., why is the hot shutoff unsafe)? My house has a valve on both sides (with a TXT between the cold input and cold shutoff).

                    Charles

                    Follow to the bottom of post.

                    Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
                    Valve on the cold side only. Much easier to change the water heater when it needs it if the valve is still in good shape. A valve on the hot side makes no sense what so ever!

                    Easy......is not why codes and licenses were created.



                    Originally posted by goob View Post
                    A valve on both the cold and hot sure makes it easy to air lock to change elements on a electric heater

                    Are you doubleD's brother?





                    Here's the REAL reason why 2 valves are dangerous, extremely dangerous. Feel free to challenge my thinking:


                    Making things easy for yourself can spell disaster for someone else, or an entire building full of people.

                    Too often people put too much faith in those T&P valves expecting them to open in failure mode.


                    Given goob's asessment....let's say "goob" fires that heater back up not realizing there's an air pocket in the top 1/4 of the tank, and both valves are shut off. The upper element will fire first unless it's a completely cold tank, otherwise the bottom will fire first and the top fires to maintain ready to use hot water.

                    Now in a very possible situation, the element kicks on and that air trapped in that tank is becoming heated and there's no way for it to escape. If the T&P doesn't open and expel that air....that's a pressure cooker, that's time bomb with serious ramifications if the air doesn't escape.


                    How often will you arrive at a home where there was a leak upstairs in the house and the customer kept turning off valves till the leak stopped, not giving a care in the world what they did? A LOT.

                    Isolating a water heater in such fashion doesn't give the ability for a supply line to blow apart at a sink, toilet...doesn't allow for a washing machine hose to burst or a fill valve to start leaking to relieve pressure.

                    Doesn't give the ability for someone to open a valve and realize "HOLY ****!" something is wrong and that water is hot and the pressure is really high. It is hidden at the heater that has no bells or whistles alarming anyone that something bad is about to happen.

                    Think of a pressure cooker that your grandma or mother used back in the day to can vegetables. Same situation and whenever things don't have a way to expand, dangerous implications will follow.

                    Every water heater I've installed with 2 valves on the water lines, I've always removed the hot side. I did just this on wednesday when I had to install an expansion tank on the same water heater. Somebody turns both valves off and the heater runs a cycle, that expansion tank is going to malfunction quickly since the rest of the water piping, both hot and cold cannot not be used to distribute that pressure and trigger warning signs that something is wrong.


                    No where in my code book will you find this exact wording about NO VALVE ON THE HOT SIDE OF WATER HEATER.


                    Being a plumber and knowing the codebook is one thing, understanding outside the codebook and putting logical thinking to play is where wisdom is king.


                    Thank you to all of those plumbers out there that know the codebook only covers a small fraction of what we deal with on an everyday basis that isn't put to print, but is important for us as licensed tradesmen to understand and prevent accidental injuries or death.
                    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

                      My thoughts exactly!! Leave it to the professionals.
                      Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

                        No i'm not double d's brother. I do put a ball valve on both the hot and cold side but i take the handle off of the hot side and have the valve turned so you do not see the stem. On jobs that show a valve on the hot outlet on the blueprint i do the same thing.if it gets put on the punchlist i put the handle back on and remove it after final inspection. What do you do when you have two or more heaters on the job?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

                          Are you speaking on the lines of commercial applications?


                          I'm speaking mainly from the aspect of residential, the majority of conversations in respect to the subject matter.


                          The situation where the wife, the neighbor, the helpful family member that puts their hands on plumbing that doesn't understand these potentially serious situations.


                          On a commercial application to which I think you're referring to. this puts a significantly smaller chance for those who operate/maintain/service these heaters a lesser chance than say a residential one.


                          You're doing the right thing by removing the handle..that alone is you knowing what dangers are there and why I stated them.

                          If you're bounded by your employer to do these things, that's something that can't be changed unless you want to lose your job or challenge the GC...which most times means losing your job.

                          They are spec'd that way mostly for ease of maintenance and keeping the existing system operable while concentrating on fixing the unit in repair.
                          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

                            I do mostly commercial and industrial but i have always put a valve on both sides and take the handle off of the hot. I've been flooded out when a homeowner forgets and turns on a faucet with the hot open at the water heater.the way the water heater manufactures are today it makes it easier if you have a brand new water heater thats a leaker on a 2 story house to have a valve on the hot while you go back to the supply house to get another one.if the stem on the ball valve sticks out too far where the homeowner might try to shut it off i take my mini hacksaw and cut it short enough that a 6" cresent will just catch the stem end. It's harder every day to make things stipid proof for homeowners and know it all maintence people .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hot Water Heater & Valves

                              Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                              Follow to the end of this posting




                              Do you know what danger is?





                              Correct.




                              Correct, and you know where I'm going with this.




                              Follow to the bottom of post.




                              Easy......is not why codes and licenses were created.






                              Are you doubleD's brother?





                              Here's the REAL reason why 2 valves are dangerous, extremely dangerous. Feel free to challenge my thinking:


                              Making things easy for yourself can spell disaster for someone else, or an entire building full of people.

                              Too often people put too much faith in those T&P valves expecting them to open in failure mode.


                              Given goob's asessment....let's say "goob" fires that heater back up not realizing there's an air pocket in the top 1/4 of the tank, and both valves are shut off. The upper element will fire first unless it's a completely cold tank, otherwise the bottom will fire first and the top fires to maintain ready to use hot water.

                              Now in a very possible situation, the element kicks on and that air trapped in that tank is becoming heated and there's no way for it to escape. If the T&P doesn't open and expel that air....that's a pressure cooker, that's time bomb with serious ramifications if the air doesn't escape.


                              How often will you arrive at a home where there was a leak upstairs in the house and the customer kept turning off valves till the leak stopped, not giving a care in the world what they did? A LOT.

                              Isolating a water heater in such fashion doesn't give the ability for a supply line to blow apart at a sink, toilet...doesn't allow for a washing machine hose to burst or a fill valve to start leaking to relieve pressure.

                              Doesn't give the ability for someone to open a valve and realize "HOLY ****!" something is wrong and that water is hot and the pressure is really high. It is hidden at the heater that has no bells or whistles alarming anyone that something bad is about to happen.

                              Think of a pressure cooker that your grandma or mother used back in the day to can vegetables. Same situation and whenever things don't have a way to expand, dangerous implications will follow.

                              Every water heater I've installed with 2 valves on the water lines, I've always removed the hot side. I did just this on wednesday when I had to install an expansion tank on the same water heater. Somebody turns both valves off and the heater runs a cycle, that expansion tank is going to malfunction quickly since the rest of the water piping, both hot and cold cannot not be used to distribute that pressure and trigger warning signs that something is wrong.


                              No where in my code book will you find this exact wording about NO VALVE ON THE HOT SIDE OF WATER HEATER.


                              Being a plumber and knowing the codebook is one thing, understanding outside the codebook and putting logical thinking to play is where wisdom is king.


                              Thank you to all of those plumbers out there that know the codebook only covers a small fraction of what we deal with on an everyday basis that isn't put to print, but is important for us as licensed tradesmen to understand and prevent accidental injuries or death.
                              Sure stirred the pot on this one. 60-70 % of the residential water heaters i see are isolated both sides, most with the hot handle NOT removed. Up until now i thought i was going the extra mile by popping the handle off - its the way i was taught.

                              Most of the installs i do are 2 tank parrallel commercial systems where every branch into the heaters gets a valve. Dunbar - would you only valve off the cold side in this situation? Ultimately we're responsible as tradesmen to make things as safe as possible for homeowners. The same hands that would shut the heater valves and fire the tank could cause insane dammage in a boiler setting. Either way - point taken.
                              Last edited by doubleD; 11-02-2008, 04:20 AM.

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