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  • Replace air gap with outside vent?

    I currently have my dishwasher hooked up to an air gap that extends above the counter then drains into a separate drain under the sink (I would imagine the sink drain and this the dishwasher drain connect in the wall?). I am getting new countertop and dishwasher and don't want the air gap above the counter. The wall is an exterior wall and I would like to vent outside (an outside air gap). Does anyone know if this exists?

    Thanks,
    Scott

  • #2
    Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

    Originally posted by swarnock View Post
    I currently have my dishwasher hooked up to an air gap that extends above the counter then drains into a separate drain under the sink (I would imagine the sink drain and this the dishwasher drain connect in the wall?). I am getting new countertop and dishwasher and don't want the air gap above the counter. The wall is an exterior wall and I would like to vent outside (an outside air gap). Does anyone know if this exists?

    Thanks,
    Scott
    They are called a Johnson Tee and Washington seems to be one of the few places they were really installed. I have heard the guy who came up with them was a plumbing inspector in Washington although I have seen them in Los Angeles as well. Last I checked the IAPMO approval had been canceled so they may no longer be available.

    Mark


    Attached Files
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

      Why can't you connect to your disposal? Do you had one?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

        Originally posted by plumbertim1975 View Post
        Why can't you connect to your disposal? Do you had one?


        Without an Air Gap?
        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

          Originally posted by plumbertim1975 View Post
          Why can't you connect to your disposal? Do you had one?
          Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
          Without an Air Gap?
          Air gaps are still required under the UPC.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

            Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
            Without an Air Gap?
            Yes, we do it all the time here.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

              Originally posted by plumbertim1975 View Post
              Yes, we do it all the time here.


              So, a direct connection to the dishwasher.....where the sink clogs, property owner grabs the toilet plunger that was last used in the toilet, starts hitting it hard and belches all that crap into a device that was designed to provide sterile utensils fit for human consumption.



              I already know that in every state on a commercial level that you can't directly connect a dishwasher to a drain, ever.


              That is wrong, I don't care if there hasn't been a backflow occurrence since cavemen, it's the probability of this ability to happen which is why an Air Gap is the best application for this fixture.


              High looping is a waste of time because fluid dynamics follow the path of least resistance and wastewater will make it to that device.

              Anything else is mechanical, everything mechanical can and will fail.


              I take pride in being a licensed backflow tester and this is a call out to all tradesmen to understand that sometimes your codebook doesn't set the standard for issues relating to protecting the health of this nation,


              and if your code is laxed on this provision, somebody is overlooking a grave problem because it happens more than people know.


              Forum related questions along with personal experiences, even with the Air Gap regulation in my state is proof that the hazard exists.
              Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

                Originally posted by plumbertim1975 View Post
                Yes, we do it all the time here.
                a disposal is not an air gap, i was on the phone with a someone the other day, he was getting countertops installed and he did not want the air gap installed and he wanted me to back him up on this. keep in mind i am not his plumber he just called me for support i guess i explained to him the reason there is an airgap and what it protects, he than said well i was at my brothers house in oregon ( i live on the border of oregon and washington) and his dishwasher didnt have one. i than explained to him the difference between the two codes, and that wasnt exceptable to him and he argued some more. normally i would have hung up on him but i was in the mood to argue with him so than i explained that in oregon you can not pump your own gas but you can assist someone in suicide if you would like. and for some strange reason he hung up on me. I dont get why people fight the air gap code so much? brake lights are ugly on a car should we take those off? those vents on the roof arent attractive either lets just eliminate those too!
                Mike
                Clark County Plumbing And Drain
                www.plumbinginclarkcounty.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

                  According to IPC section 802.1.6 discharging a dishwasher into disposal without an air gap is approved. That is the way I read it and our building inspectors read it also, and have for as long as I have been plumbing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

                    As I understand it under UPC-an air gap is an air gap. The actual device that sits on top of the sink.

                    Under IPC-an air gap is often interpreted as the "high loop" by inspectors. Raising the drain hose to the top of the cabinet and securing it.

                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

                      Originally posted by plumbertim1975 View Post
                      According to IPC section 802.1.6 discharging a dishwasher into disposal without an air gap is approved. That is the way I read it and our building inspectors read it also, and have for as long as I have been plumbing.
                      You are correct the IPC allows a high loop under the counter top to act as an air-gap. As a purist in the health and safety of the public I don't think I could install a dishwasher without a physical air-gap even if it's legal. Most dishwasher now have built in protection but I still don't like the idea of not having an air-gap.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

                        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                        As I understand it under UPC-an air gap is an air gap. The actual device that sits on top of the sink.

                        Under IPC-an air gap is often interpreted as the "high loop" by inspectors. Raising the drain hose to the top of the cabinet and securing it.

                        J.C.
                        An "air gap" as defined by the code is a physical separation of 1" (minimum) between the flood rim of the fixture and the potable water inlet. A dishwasher air gap is a whole different animal as we are not really dealing with potable water we are dealing with waste water.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

                          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                          As I understand it under UPC-an air gap is an air gap. The actual device that sits on top of the sink.

                          Under IPC-an air gap is often interpreted as the "high loop" by inspectors. Raising the drain hose to the top of the cabinet and securing it.

                          J.C.
                          That is true. Look at the definition of a drainage system air gap in your code book.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

                            Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                            So, a direct connection to the dishwasher.....where the sink clogs, property owner grabs the toilet plunger that was last used in the toilet, starts hitting it hard and belches all that crap into a device that was designed to provide sterile utensils fit for human consumption.



                            I already know that in every state on a commercial level that you can't directly connect a dishwasher to a drain, ever.


                            That is wrong, I don't care if there hasn't been a backflow occurrence since cavemen, it's the probability of this ability to happen which is why an Air Gap is the best application for this fixture.


                            High looping is a waste of time because fluid dynamics follow the path of least resistance and wastewater will make it to that device.

                            Anything else is mechanical, everything mechanical can and will fail.


                            I take pride in being a licensed backflow tester and this is a call out to all tradesmen to understand that sometimes your codebook doesn't set the standard for issues relating to protecting the health of this nation,


                            and if your code is laxed on this provision, somebody is overlooking a grave problem because it happens more than people know.


                            Forum related questions along with personal experiences, even with the Air Gap regulation in my state is proof that the hazard exists.
                            This is exactly my concern, if I hook my dishwasher drain to the disposal and if my disposal clogs and I take a plunger to it, it appears that the force of the plunger would push the yucky water into the dishwasher. That is why I was thinking of keeping it separate from a sink drain and taking the existing air gap and turning it into an external vent so I would eliminate the air gap above the sink, but I am not finding an external vent yet.

                            I do appreciate all of the responses!

                            Thanks,
                            Scott

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Replace air gap with outside vent?

                              THIS IS NO LONGER ALLOWED BY WASHINGTON STATE CODE
                              AS WHEN IT STOPS UP, YOU HAVE TO TEAR THE WALL OPEN TO CLEAR THE BLOCKADGE
                              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                              They are called a Johnson Tee and Washington seems to be one of the few places they were really installed. I have heard the guy who came up with them was a plumbing inspector in Washington although I have seen them in Los Angeles as well. Last I checked the IAPMO approval had been canceled so they may no longer be available.

                              Mark


                              JERRYMAC
                              E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
                              CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
                              FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                              SINCE JAN. 1989

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