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  • #16
    Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

    Originally posted by lovetheUSA View Post
    If the temp is below freezing, then water will freeze. The thickness of the pipe will have little effect on that. And if a pipe freezed hard, it will split. I suppose in relative terms, a heavier wall pipe has a better chance, but I think if it freezes, it will split somewhere, no matter what grade of pipe.

    I agree BUT: Isn't this the reverse theory that NY code makers use....as they insist we use L

    Why can't we use M in NY then......it's only a few degrees as you say....
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    • #17
      Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

      Logic & Theory with Codemakers?

      J.C.

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      • #18
        Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

        Just got my net back up, and thanks for all your opinions. I just love expert forums.

        But guess what, while I thought I had the option, the work authorisation page stipulates CPVC pipe replumb only. There is another selection of replumb material page that gives me the copper M option.

        I will have to call the CPRC tomorrow and find out what gives. Since it does freeze here in Tallahassee, and we have municipal water but it does gunk up the shower heads with limestone/calcium deposits and my kettle, even though it's city water.

        I need to speak with the CPRC as I may have no choice.

        Since it freezes here, I have ?hard city water and may not have a choice, what are the cons of CPVC for replumb in the roof and walls?

        There are 4 plumbing fixtures on the outside walls (master bathroom with two shower heads and two sinks and they will all be on the outside walls and I don't know what insulation there is (we have clad). Not too familiar with US housing. Kitchen is inside and laundry and hot water in uninsulated garage. Also 2nd bathroom will be outside walls also. I am assuming it's going to be a messy and tough job since the kitchen doesn't have walls to ceiling.


        Thanks guys once again, for your thoughts and opinions... interesting!

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        • #19
          Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

          If I had to choose CPVC.....

          I would choose a PEX repipe...LOL

          CPVC SUX!!!

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          • #20
            Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

            Originally posted by Chemeng View Post
            Type M is fine for all Residential Houses in Toronto, Canada (city water). My house is 50 years old...all "M"...and NEVER had a leak.
            The National Plumbing Code of Canada spec's minimum Type 'L' Copper for domestic hot & cold water. Unless Ontario has amended their most recent edition of the Provincial Plumbing code (which is based off of the new or latest Canadian National Code) to Type 'M' Copper I don't know but I HIGHLY doubt it.

            I would get 'L' Copper if you have to chip in for it and as mentioned make sure the company reams their fittings with a good reaming tool (Noga De-burring tool as an example). Also make sure they wipe their joints after soldering (if soldering is the way they choose to do it).

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            • #21
              Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

              Originally posted by Scott K View Post
              The National Plumbing Code of Canada spec's minimum Type 'L' Copper for domestic hot & cold water. Unless Ontario has amended their most recent edition of the Provincial Plumbing code (which is based off of the new or latest Canadian National Code) to Type 'M' Copper I don't know but I HIGHLY doubt it.

              I would get 'L' Copper if you have to chip in for it and as mentioned make sure the company reams their fittings with a good reaming tool (Noga De-burring tool as an example). Also make sure they wipe their joints after soldering (if soldering is the way they choose to do it).
              BC is the one with the amendment. Type M is permitted for domestic Hot and Cold, and hot water heating above ground Canada wide.
              West Trail Mechanical Ltd
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              • #22
                Another country heard from :-)

                NJ allows Copper Water Tube Type K, L, or M for Water Service Piping or for Hot or Cold Water Distribution Piping, above or below grade, inside or outside of the building.

                NSPC 2006, Table 3.4 - MATERIALS FOR POTABLE WATER

                Copper is one of the few materials approved for almost every type of piping application in residential construction isn't it?
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                • #23
                  Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

                  I would use PEX and Sharkbites so you can get in on the next class action
                  http://www.all-clear-sewer.com/

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                  • #24
                    Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

                    Originally posted by All Clear Sewer View Post
                    I would use PEX and Sharkbites so you can get in on the next class action
                    I was so thinking that!

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                    • #25
                      Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

                      Originally posted by Scott K View Post
                      I would get 'L' Copper if you have to chip in for it and as mentioned make sure the company reams their fittings with a good reaming tool (Noga De-burring tool as an example). Also make sure they wipe their joints after soldering (if soldering is the way they choose to do it).
                      I would chip in for it, but not staying in the house long, so don't know if the house is worth it. House will sell for maybe 220K. I also doubt whether I'm going to be able to 'oversee' 'southern tradesmen', me being a woman and all.... LOL! It sounds like I'm asking them if they have wiped their butts!! And as for 'reaming' well you haven't been to Australia and heard that term used elsewhere, kind of like, give her a good 'reaming'....

                      Oh I so have to stop drinking my glass of wine and go to bed!

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                      • #26
                        Re: Another country heard from :-)

                        Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                        NJ allows Copper Water Tube Type K, L, or M for Water Service Piping or for Hot or Cold Water Distribution Piping, above or below grade, inside or outside of the building.
                        When we had a renovation done, the plans called for type L, but the plumber used M for water and heating. Always wondered if it really made a difference.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

                          http://www.copper.org/applications/p...rnty_itms.html

                          Copper pipe manufacturers put a 50 year warranty on their products. I doubt you will get that from CPVC mfgs. And go with type L. It has a black stripe, Type M has a red stripe. If you are concerned with PH level or hardness, install a softener.
                          ANYONE CAN TAKE THE HELM WHEN THE SEA IS CALM.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

                            In Canada "M" has RED writing on it and "L" has BLUE writing on it (have never seen it black). Also, from Hamilton, Ontario all the way around to Toronto, Ontario (almost the whole west end of Lake Ontario, I have never seen a standard (typical new survey) home piped in "L"... never. Also, 99.9% of new homes are heated with forced air, so no piping for heaing needed.

                            "L" is used in commerical.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

                              In IPC, and UPC new construction, it would depend on what the engineer is specifying. Because an inspector wouldn't say boo about seeing type M in the walls of a house or business unless it was spec'd for a different type or material.

                              I got something in the mail this week from IAPMO for CPC training. "California Plumbing Code"? What a joke. Have you CA guys heard of this? UPC plus CA amendments = CPC.
                              Last edited by mtnman1100; 12-14-2008, 08:53 PM.
                              ANYONE CAN TAKE THE HELM WHEN THE SEA IS CALM.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Polybutylene replumb claim

                                Here is a pic of some vanguard polybutylene. Its roughly 25 years old. The poly was fine but well water had eaten the stop valve and it was leaking.

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