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Closet Flange Connection

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  • #31
    Re: Closet Flange Connection

    Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
    I dunno about that. I have seen some items that make claims to be code approved, but if you dig deeper into it they are not. For example the permaflow P-trap with the paddle wheel, or the corrugated flexible tubular piping they make for drain wastes.
    Who knows about wheel traps and corrugated pipe....I dont use those because its junk.

    My work has stood the test of time and I challenge anyone to prove it doesn't work when the proper materials are used.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Closet Flange Connection

      Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
      Who knows about wheel traps and corrugated pipe....I dont use those because its junk.

      My work has stood the test of time and I challenge anyone to prove it doesn't work when the proper materials are used.
      Thats the key phrase "when the proper materials are used" A flange that glues inside a pipe is not proper.
      Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
      Ron's Facebook
      A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
      Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
      Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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      • #33
        Re: Closet Flange Connection

        Well, I've never seen anything made by John Stevens, I get my PVC from Charlotte so I guess I would have to see where it says that it can be glued inside the pipe. ( just because it actually fits does not mean it is intended to) As far as the UPC approval goes, that means it is approved for it's intended purpose. Of course, rather than speculate it would be wise to give a call to your state plumbing board and ask them. Ours would not approve that use. I try not to make the code up to suit my own needs. It's a good way to loose money.
        sigpic

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        • #34
          Re: Closet Flange Connection

          Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
          Thats the key phrase "when the proper materials are used" A flange that glues inside a pipe is not proper.
          The manufacturer says it is and the UPC stamped it.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Closet Flange Connection

            Has the pipe been approved to have fittings glued "inside" the pipe. I doubt it highly.
            Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
            Ron's Facebook
            A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
            Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
            Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Closet Flange Connection

              Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
              Who knows about wheel traps and corrugated pipe....I dont use those because its junk.

              My work has stood the test of time and I challenge anyone to prove it doesn't work when the proper materials are used.
              the only ones that would challange you are customers, lawyers and your plumbing board. You don't have to justify what you do to us. We know what will and will not pass code.
              sigpic

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              • #37
                Re: Closet Flange Connection

                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                Well, I've never seen anything made by John Stevens, I get my PVC from Charlotte so I guess I would have to see where it says that it can be glued inside the pipe. ( just because it actually fits does not mean it is intended to) As far as the UPC approval goes, that means it is approved for it's intended purpose. Of course, rather than speculate it would be wise to give a call to your state plumbing board and ask them. Ours would not approve that use. I try not to make the code up to suit my own needs. It's a good way to loose money.
                I already have called. Its approved.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Closet Flange Connection

                  Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                  I dunno about that. I have seen some items that make claims to be code approved, but if you dig deeper into it they are not. For example the permaflow P-trap with the paddle wheel, or the corrugated flexible tubular piping they make for drain wastes.
                  Why do you say the permaflow P-trap is not Code approved? I believe it is approved under the UPC, IPC and NPC.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Closet Flange Connection

                    Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                    I already have called. Its approved.
                    Thats a hard one for use to verify since you do not have your company information listed, or the city and state that you work in. Otherwise I would call them in the morning to verify that that fitting has been approved.
                    Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                    Ron's Facebook
                    A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                    Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                    Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Closet Flange Connection

                      Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                      The manufacturer says it is and the UPC stamped it.

                      Please point me in the direction where I can find that information, from the manufacturer, in print. specifically where does it say that the flange can be glued inside the pipe and moreover, where does the pipe manufacturer say that you can glue the flange inside their pipe. Seems to me that there are two manufacturers involved here and the chances that they got together and even considered the issue is highly suspect.
                      sigpic

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                      • #41
                        Re: Closet Flange Connection

                        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                        Why do you say the permaflow P-trap is not Code approved? I believe it is approved under the UPC, IPC and NPC.

                        Mark
                        Not approved here in Illinois and I always seen other codes that had statements that traps that have mechanical partitions or chambers are not approved.
                        Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                        Ron's Facebook
                        A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                        Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                        Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Closet Flange Connection

                          Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                          Jones Stephens corp manufactures the flange. It can be glued inside 4" or over 3" pipe per the manufacturer. It has UPC stamped on it.....what does that mean?

                          Now what?
                          Let's say for the sake of argument that it has UPC, IPC, ABC and 123 stamped on it.

                          However, if the written code disallows it for your area and license, you can be in a position of liability. Now, there are degrees of exposure and liability in just waking up. So a person may be willing to break the code to make things easier & accept that liability.

                          A scenario: Backup in a house pushes through the illegal-inside-glued connection and into the subfloor & over up into the wall some. Clog is cleared or clears itself. No one is the wiser. Mold develops. The 4 year old daughter is highly allergic. She dies.

                          Everyone is going to court. The manufacturer AND you Your insurance will probably not cover you because you didn't follow the written code and are therefore working "outside the scope of your policy". Keeping the company on a string to keep anyone from getting anything probably won't work and then they come for your personal assets.

                          This is a worst case scenario that can happen faster than some think.

                          Just seems so much easier not to go round and round about it and just plan for & install the proper flange.


                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Closet Flange Connection

                            Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                            Has the pipe been approved to have fittings glued "inside" the pipe. I doubt it highly.
                            If the UPC accepted its use it must have. It has astm stamps too.

                            Give me your scientific opinion on why gluing on the inside is different than the outside....is it different pvc on the inside?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Closet Flange Connection

                              had the same conversation about inside flanges. at an inspectors meeting

                              the thing is that the outside of the pipe is what is regulated for shape and size, and the inside is not. and was not designed for fittings to be glued inside.

                              but on the other hand. i have seen hundreds installed without problems

                              just my 2 cents

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Closet Flange Connection

                                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                                Let's say for the sake of argument that it has UPC, IPC, ABC and 123 stamped on it.

                                However, if the written code disallows it for your area and license, you can be in a position of liability. Now, there are degrees of exposure and liability in just waking up. So a person may be willing to break the code to make things easier & accept that liability.

                                A scenario: Backup in a house pushes through the illegal-inside-glued connection and into the subfloor & over up into the wall some. Clog is cleared or clears itself. No one is the wiser. Mold develops. The 4 year old daughter is highly allergic. She dies.

                                Everyone is going to court. The manufacturer AND you Your insurance will probably not cover you because you didn't follow the written code and are therefore working "outside the scope of your policy". Keeping the company on a string to keep anyone from getting anything probably won't work and then they come for your personal assets.

                                This is a worst case scenario that can happen faster than some think.

                                Just seems so much easier not to go round and round about it and just plan for & install the proper flange.


                                J.C.
                                I do install proper flanges and I do plan it. it works perfect. And its code approved.

                                Comment

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