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  • #46
    Re: Closet Flange Connection

    Originally posted by ranman View Post
    had the same conversation about inside flanges. at an inspectors meeting

    the thing is that the outside of the pipe is what is regulated for shape and size, and the inside is not. and was not designed for fittings to be glued inside.

    but on the other hand. i have seen hundreds installed without problems

    just my 2 cents
    Sure it is and some codes approve it for a closet flange. The inside of the pipe is checked/regulated.....its where the flow is.....very important.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Closet Flange Connection

      Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
      I do install proper flanges and I do plan it. it works perfect. And its code approved.
      Then there seems to be no reason for the debate. If it's written in your codebook for your area, your liability covers it, and your happy with the results of gluing inside a pipe....glue away.


      J.C.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Closet Flange Connection

        Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
        Not approved here in Illinois and I always seen other codes that had statements that traps that have mechanical partitions or chambers are not approved.
        All codes say you cannot have mechanical parts to maintain a seal (which this does not) and I have heard Illinois does not approve the paddle wheel but the permaflow trap is approved in every other Code I am aware of. That said I thunk they are worthless as far as a p-trap goes.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Closet Flange Connection

          Originally posted by ranman View Post
          had the same conversation about inside flanges. at an inspectors meeting

          the thing is that the outside of the pipe is what is regulated for shape and size, and the inside is not. and was not designed for fittings to be glued inside.

          but on the other hand. i have seen hundreds installed without problems

          just my 2 cents
          Exactly. PVC (ABS too?) is formed over a die and the external of the pipe is of a uniformity to give the correct solvent weld.

          We've all looked inside the pipe and seen how it is not as uniform.


          J.C.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Closet Flange Connection

            This conversation is rapidly reaching the point of absurdity. We all know that this procedure is not code approved in any jusridiction. I can gaurantee everyone one thing though. No matter how lucid your arguments are, TM is going to continue to do things his way because he knows more than all of us put together and has far more experience than even the most senior plumber on this or any forum.

            Puts a tear in my eye when I think of the 36 years I put in the trade, and as a member of the state plumbers board, and a member of the code review board, and as a plumbing apprentice instructor, and a license renawal seminar provider. All that time and effort...........wasted....wasted
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Closet Flange Connection

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              This conversation is rapidly reaching the point of absurdity. We all know that this procedure is not code approved in any jusridiction. I can gaurantee everyone one thing though. No matter how lucid your arguments are, TM is going to continue to do things his way because he knows more than all of us put together and has far more experience than even the most senior plumber on this or any forum.

              Puts a tear in my eye when I think of the 36 years I put in the trade, and as a member of the state plumbers board, and a member of the code review board, and as a plumbing apprentice instructor, and a license renawal seminar provider. All that time and effort...........wasted....wasted
              How much pvc dwv have you installed?

              Lets try not to get personal right? Would you like me to post a pic of the astm standards molded into the flange ...how about the UPC stamp on the 3 x 4 closet flange...Or would you like a link to manufacturer so you can read the indications for use of the flange?

              36 years is not that long.....my father has over 60 years experience and still can work but chooses not to. Playing the "old school" card doesn't carry too much weight with me...I grew up with 13 master plumbers in my family.
              Last edited by TheMaster; 01-06-2011, 10:29 PM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Closet Flange Connection

                Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                How much pvc dwv have you installed?

                Lets try not to get personal right? Would you like me to post a pic of the astm standards molded into the flange ...how about the UPC stamp on the 3 x 4 closet flange...Or would you like a link to manufacturer so you can read the indications for use of the flange?
                No. But can you list the code or codes where it is specifically allowed?

                Or could anyone list the codes where it is specifically disallowed?

                That would seem to end it.


                J.C.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Closet Flange Connection

                  How much PVC? By now it must be miles, hundreds of miles.

                  Yes, indeed, post the link. The stamps on the fitting mean nothing if the fitting is not used properly.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Closet Flange Connection

                    Ron,

                    Here is the listing on the permaflow.

                    http://pld.iapmo.org/file_info.asp?file_no=0005232

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Closet Flange Connection

                      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                      No. But can you list the code or codes where it is specifically allowed?

                      Or could anyone list the codes where it is specifically disallowed?

                      That would seem to end it.


                      J.C.
                      You think the code is end all be all? STILL? Any engineer can over ride the code here.

                      An engineer will tell an inspector to stfu I've seen it.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Closet Flange Connection

                        Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                        You think the code is end all be all? STILL? Any engineer can over ride the code here.

                        An engineer will tell an inspector to stfu I've seen it.
                        So the question remains where is here? So we can call the local plumbing inspctor and ask them if a fitting glued to the inside of a pipe is approved there.
                        Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                        A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                        Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                        Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Closet Flange Connection

                          Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                          You think the code is end all be all? STILL? Any engineer can over ride the code here.

                          An engineer will tell an inspector to stfu I've seen it.
                          And? Is that it? And I've seen engineers f!@k up so bad they shouldn't be allowed to be involved in their field.

                          So an engineer does not impress me anymore than a good apprentice.


                          Now, where's the codes? Anyone?


                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Closet Flange Connection

                            Been here, done this, waste of time
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Closet Flange Connection

                              Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                              And? Is that it? And I've seen engineers f!@k up so bad they shouldn't be allowed to be involved in their field.

                              So an engineer does not impress me anymore than a good apprentice.


                              Now, where's the codes? Anyone?


                              J.C.
                              Yes i have seen engineers screw up and I've seen every code screw up. But you know what I have never seen....one of my 4" in the pipe flanges go bad....never seen that before.

                              1. I have an interference fit into the pipe.
                              2. It is approved by my code
                              3. I have used them with success for over 25 years and have working samples in homes I have plumbed and still service.(on pier foundations) and slabs.
                              4. The product is designed to use inside 4" pipe by the flange manufacturer.

                              Really number 3 is all I'm concerened about in the real world.

                              These people argue their point about my flange...and then they slap a wax seal down on a flange and call it good. the wax is the weak link but no one cares about that...its code approved
                              Last edited by TheMaster; 01-06-2011, 10:44 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Closet Flange Connection

                                Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                                Yes i have seen engineers screw up and I've seen every code screw up. But you know what I have never seen....one of my 4" in the pipe flanges go bad....never seen that before.

                                1. I have an interference fit into the pipe.
                                2. It is approved by my code
                                3. I have used them with success for over 25 years and have working samples in homes I have plumbed and still service.(on pier foundations) and slabs.
                                4. The product is designed to use inside 4" pipe by the flange manufacturer.

                                Really number 3 is all I'm concerened about in the real world.
                                Fine by me.

                                What code? Seriously? Number? Appendix? Table? Exclusion? Inclusion?

                                Curious.

                                Thanks.


                                J.C.

                                Comment

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