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  • #16
    Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

    Originally posted by vince the plumber View Post
    muck, it's vince (brain freeze)

    good to see your ugly mug on the best plumbing forum in the world.

    Vince
    muck is stuck.this is the real zone . Welcome brother
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

      Originally posted by muck View Post
      you need the bread with rasins in it
      AAH... Of course.
      Why didn't I think of that? Obviously a plug that big would require some type of binder.

      Welcome to the forum Muck
      INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
      Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

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      • #18
        Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

        Better drive the whole bread truck in!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

          Wait until that old 72" ( i think 72" anyway) brick main in New York City breaks. As far as I know they are still building the bypass now.
          INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
          Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

            I dont have an ugly mug...........
            My mom thinks I'm cute...


            Thanks for the invites

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

              Originally posted by muck View Post
              i dont have an ugly mug...........
              My mom thinks i'm cute...


              Thanks for the invites
              nice choppers honey !
              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

                just brushed

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

                  im making the worlds largest jet swet to help them out
                  Charlie

                  My seek the peek fundraiser page
                  http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                  http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                  new work pictures 12/09
                  http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

                    Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                    More on the problem. Government is just starting to wake up to what our trade has been telling the public for 20 years now. All the past years of 'savings' for the taxpayer will be coming back to haunt them, but the people who made those decisions have moved on and up to better jobs at state and national levels. They won't feel the pain that the taxpayer will now.
                    Can You, or someone else explain why this system has soo many failures? Thanks' Tool Be a great read in P&M Mag.
                    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

                      Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                      Can You, or someone else explain why this system has soo many failures? Thanks' Tool Be a great read in P&M Mag.


                      If by ‘this system’ you mean the condition of the municipal water systems across the country well my take on it is that to save money over the past 20 or so years local and state governments have put off maintenance, repairs, and replacement or upgrading of water (and sewer) mains the same as they have with bridges and roads. Atlantic City had some wooden water mains running down Pacific Avenue dating from the 19th century still in service back in the 1970s when the first wave of casino building was on. They were replaced but that just shows how easy it is to forget about the condition of a system so vital to our way of life.

                      Just like any other piping system water lines will wear. On the inside they see flow accelerated corrosion and abrasion from higher flow rates than they may have been initially designed for. Sand, grit, or other foreign material in the water wears on the pipe especially at fittings, valves, and changes in direction. The pipe can then wear through and develop a leak and the end result could be a catastrophic failure like the one in Maryland today (Dec. 23).

                      On the outside they are subject to damage from other underground work (both direct and indirect), and from settling, heaving, or other types of ground movement such as earthquakes or plate shifts. These put additional strain on the piping and can leave sections of pipe without the necessary support. Minor leaks can cause voids to develop in the ground and sinkholes to appear. These can take years to ‘surface’ but when they do it is ugly. Other utilities working in the street to install their systems may not protect systems already installed during excavation, or may not guard against undermining or disturbing fill around existing lines. They may not be able to or care to compact the soil around existing piping because they don’t realize the damage not doing so can cause or they don’t care.

                      High flow rates can also cause cavitation in the lines. Those tiny bubbles are low pressure areas that can wear away the walls of metal pipe one molecule at a time as they collapse. Any disturbance to the flow of the fluid through the line will contribute to this condition. Pipe that is not properly installed or poor workmanship can be troublesome too. These forces can affect other piping materials too.

                      Why are we in this condition today you ask? I say it boils down to support for urban sprawl. As everyone leaves the city behind and moves out to the country they want to take their ‘city water’ with them. Due to conditions or regulations in the area private wells are not feasible or desirable. Now older mains which were not sized to carry large volumes beyond the original limits of the system are being asked to provide water to a growing number of people spread over a larger and larger area. Without replacing these older lines the only way to carry more water is to increase pressure. For the same size pipe this means higher flow rates (GPM), that can cause lines to fail sooner than was originally calculated.

                      Now with a failed system and people without water repairs become an emergency situation and costs skyrocket because everything must be expedited. There is no time to go through a normal bidding process or to value engineer anything so the taxpayer gets hit with costs that are two to four times higher than what was thought to be so high they avoided it altogether 20 years ago. Materials must be expedited in at higher costs and equipment must be procured at inflated rates along with labor and oversight. There is no time to shop around for anything.

                      If the municipality is lucky they might have a plan and an old estimate already on the drawing board they can dust off, update, and put into action. Otherwise they will need to put together the whole package and get some fast numbers which are usually not accurate. Cost overruns, overtime, and extras will tack on another 25 to 50% above the original estimate and everyone will be OK with that because those were numbers that were hastily thrown together to meet some emerging crisis and “we knew they were not accurate but we had to go with something”.

                      So now you’re doing a job at twice what you want to pay for it and you’ve had no time to even shop around and find some cheap money to borrow to do it with so you are paying on that end also. Twenty years ago the municipality saved a million or two, now they are paying 14 million to repair what was put off back then.

                      And the politicians says: "How do you like me now?"


                      That’s my $0.03 on it anyway.
                      ---------------
                      Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                      ---------------
                      “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                      ---------
                      "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                      ---------
                      sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

                        I agree with Bob D. re the cause of the problems. My observations have led me to another contributing factor that increases the cost of repairs - Unions. The municipal employees in our area are all unionized. That in and of itself is OK. But here is the rub. The workers negotiated a 15 minute 'wash-up ' time before lunch and again at quitting time. OK again, you're working in the corn and brown trouts it is a good idea to give employees time to clean up. But what was intended as a well intentioned benefit has devolved into the employees taking an additional 15 minutes to get ready for the 15 minute 'wash-up' time. Now they take 30 minutes before lunch and before quitting time. All those 30 minutes add up to untolled hours of non productive time. So, we are called in to repair a water main break and have to shut down the line. What happens? No one knows where the shut off valves are. When they are finally found, in over half the circumstances, the valves don't work and another valve and shut off on another loop has to be found which inconveniences more people. With some oversight, all those extra minutes the municipal employees take in their unauthorized 'prewash-up time' those valve boxes could have been cleaned and the valves exercised.

                        I wish Spinner was here to help me with this next one, he knew the regulations. New York State passed a regulation that mandates if municipalities are aware of any circumstances where storm water enters the sanitary sewer system it must be corrected. We are now back to what Bob D. says. Twenty years ago or more "...the sanitary sewer system is close so lets just dump the storm water into it." Now we are paying big time to correct the stupidness, laziness, if not outright fraud or payoffs, in not completing the piping contracts as bid.

                        In our area companies that initiate these Godzilla housing developments in outlying areas are forced by the municipalities to provide their own water, sewer and storm districts. Another good idea. But the regulation is taken to absurd lengths. My mother's house is on a cul-de-sac with eight other houses. They have city water, and storm sewers but septic tanks. There is a 12" sanitary sewer line that is at the back border of her lot. Can she tap into that? Nope. The home owners have to form their own sewer district. How absurd. I have offered on a few occasions to tap her house into the line but she won't let me.

                        One of the companies for which I worked does a lot of pipe relining. Recently, within the last year I think, a system of relining was approved for water. Great engineering breakthrough. The problem is that the water mains have been neglected for so long that many of the pipe walls have deteriorated to the point where they are not strong enough to support the reliner. Now we have a big problem. In the old days, when possible, sanitary sewer and water mains were layed in the same ditch. New York State has a regulation that forces a 3' separation between the two. Now not only do the water mains have to be replaced they has to be rerouted. Huge bucks and stupidness.

                        I could go on and on but my blood pressure escalates when I start to pontificate about the state of the infrastructure.

                        -Tom
                        Last edited by Tom W; 12-24-2008, 08:52 AM. Reason: stupid astericks

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                        • #27
                          Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

                          Haha, that happened on a "River Rd." I thought that was kinda ironic....

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

                            Well, generally you assume a pound per person, in essence if you are having 12 for Christmas dinner, look for at least a 12 pound turkey.

                            Then, the amount of stuffing will depend on bread and other ingredients. Some people utilize a mostly bread stuffing, while others use cranberries, walnuts, etc.

                            Therefore, the number of loaves of bread for your turkey stuffing/dressing will vary according to your recipe/size of your turkey as well as whether you make extra outside of the bird..........





                            Wait a minute........did I the misread the thread title again.........???
                            I'm on "The List" and I love it!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: How many loaves of bread ?????

                              Laziness is laziness, it comes in both the union and non-union flavor.

                              Toms point about the "wash-up" time for employees is not the fault of the unions. It happens on union and non-union jobs and in my opinion its the fault of supervision. If the supervisor does not control his work force as to their start and stop times that is where the problem lies. If that person is too close to the workforce (as in also being a union member or a close friend of those bending the rules) such that they are inclined to not enforce start and stop times as laid out in company rules then the next level up the chain of command has to lay down the law.

                              You got a rule, make sure its written down and both parties are aware of it. You can't enforce something that exists only in someones mind, just like a contract put in on paper and hold everyone accountable. When someone quits early, discipline them. Maybe a warning the first time, dock them for the time the next, and fire them on the third infraction. The word will get out pretty quick and it won't happen again.

                              Somebody comes to work for you, whether you're a two man shop or a large contractor with 500 employees, on Day One you hand them a paper with company rules on it and have them sign it. There's no argument then as to when someone is doing wrong.

                              You should also be handing out some form of Safety and HazComm information AND giving training, and having them sign that too. You want them to know that you expect them to work to the established safety and hazardous regulations applicable in your state, and that they can be held legally responsible as well as you. If you don't and that employee goes and dumps 5 gallons of a hazardous chemical in the sewer they can claim they didn't know any better because you didn't tell them as required by law in almost every state. You'll be standing in front of the judge all alone.
                              ---------------
                              Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                              ---------------
                              “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                              ---------
                              "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                              ---------
                              sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                              Comment

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