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  • water heater sediment

    I assume all water heater sediment is calcium carbonate. Other than flushing the tank heater regularly, is there anything that can be done to prevent the sediment from forming? Would a higher temp setting on the control along with a tempering valve help? I think I read Dunbar or NHMaster post that once, but I dont remember the reason.

    A good friend of mine/GC is having hot water issues. Running out of hot after 2 showers with a 75 gallon AO Smith, and a gravity re-circ that doesnt function properly.

    I've almost got him talked into a tankless.

    Andy

  • #2
    Re: water heater sediment

    Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
    I assume all water heater sediment is calcium carbonate. Other than flushing the tank heater regularly, is there anything that can be done to prevent the sediment from forming? Would a higher temp setting on the control along with a tempering valve help? I think I read Dunbar or NHMaster post that once, but I dont remember the reason.

    A good friend of mine/GC is having hot water issues. Running out of hot after 2 showers with a 75 gallon AO Smith, and a gravity re-circ that doesnt function properly.

    I've almost got him talked into a tankless.

    Andy
    It could just be a bad check valve on the recirc loop or bad lower element.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: water heater sediment

      the hotter the temperature, the worse the mineral build up

      probably a bad/ worn dip tube.

      talking your friend into a tankless will end your friendship

      trust us on this one
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: water heater sediment

        I think they were recommending hotter temps and a mixing valve to prevent Legionaires bacteria from growing in the environs.
        "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: water heater sediment

          Kind of depends how long his showers are and the incoming water temp as well.
          "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: water heater sediment

            Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
            I assume all water heater sediment is calcium carbonate. Other than flushing the tank heater regularly, is there anything that can be done to prevent the sediment from forming? Would a higher temp setting on the control along with a tempering valve help? I think I read Dunbar or NHMaster post that once, but I dont remember the reason.

            A good friend of mine/GC is having hot water issues. Running out of hot after 2 showers with a 75 gallon AO Smith, and a gravity re-circ that doesnt function properly.

            I've almost got him talked into a tankless.

            Andy


            There's only one water heater on the market that has a dip tube that goes to the bottom and makes almost a full circle, and that's the Sears Kenmore water heater.

            RotoSwirl dip tube. Comes standard on all models of their heaters but they are very reluctant to even sell replacements, stating they wasn't part of the class action lawsuit years ago due to their product mfg. who made there's at the time specifically. Don't know if that is truth or not.


            Anyway, it keeps the debri waterborn but eventually that sediment comes to a rest. It's just a little more "better" than just a straight tube stopping near to the bottom.

            On a GE which is a RUUD/RHEEM heater, I despise their dip tubes. They only go a little beyond halfway down, are clear plastic with a flute at the bottom and the only thing that keeps it from falling into the tank? A predictable rubber foam washer that we all know after being compressed for years will eventually fail.

            Makes me SICK! to know how these mfgs. are lining up product failures that almost guarantees that the failures will occur, eventually. People actually paid to make sure it lasts beyond 6 years but not 10, or whatever the limit on the side of the tank states.


            If there's anyone I could say that could "maintain" a tankless would be you guys in the hvac field. You all deal with those computer modules and setups on furnaces so the tankless wouldn't exactly be a tough struggle for you all to understand the electronics or the way to just properly diagnose the problem when they malfunction, which will happen.


            Hooking a hose to the boiler drain at the bottom of that heater and using that for hot water applications *pressure washer* periodically would prolong the life of that heater greatly.
            Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: water heater sediment

              I live in a high sediment area and my own water heater is an 8-year-old Rheem. I don't know what's in it (yet) because I haven't had to do a thing to it. I have had to work on others of a similar age and found very little sediment. Working on something like a Bradford-White or an AO Smith, I get a lot of sediment if it's the same age, and often repair them when they're only about three years old. Kudos to Rheem. (Ruud should be the same.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: water heater sediment

                Andy,

                Go for the tankless if it's right for him. He'll thank you for the added space.

                You'll have to add a pump to the gravity loop. Depending on the tankless you install, pay attention to the recirc. diagrams and controls. Not all the same.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: water heater sediment

                  Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                  Anyway, it keeps the debri waterborn but eventually that sediment comes to a rest. It's just a little more "better" than just a straight tube stopping near to the bottom.
                  This makes perfect sense to me. Seems like the curved dip tube is just a band-aid fix.

                  Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                  You'll have to add a pump to the gravity loop. Depending on the tankless you install, pay attention to the recirc. diagrams and controls. Not all the same.
                  His gravity re-circ worked great for about 6 months after he moved in. Not sure what happened for it to quit working. Last year I helped him work on the shower valve in the master bath. Kohler had sent him some parts and I helped him replace them. I cant remember the number on it, but it has the 104 degree stop on the handle, with a button you have to push to get higher temperatures. Anyway, I added a hose-bibb to the 1/2" re-circ line which runs to the bottom of the tank where the drain is. We were thinking maybe somehow the recirc was air locked. It didnt help.

                  The house is 8 years old. The original plumber has since partially retired and stopped returning phone calls a few years ago. He did an excellent job on everything, but theres just this small issue on the re-circ. It would be nice to see how he piped it, but that would require tearing out first floor walls and ceilings, and second floor walls. We're not going to do that on a million dollar plus house.

                  Theyre on a community well which I think has pretty steady incoming water temps. Not like my city water which varies alot.

                  Youre probably right Rick. I think his wife, daughter and him would just hate me if they had endless hot water and lower utility bills.

                  Whats a "good" 75 gallon natural gas natural draft heater sell for these days? Its gotta be in the $800 range. Compare that to a good tankless with the flush valves and 10' of vent pipe with a sidewall termination. I think $1400 would be on the high side. He's already got 1 1/4 gas, 1" cold and 3/4" hot. If I can get him to flush it twice a year I think he'd be a good candidate.

                  Andy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: water heater sediment

                    Oh well, you warned him Rick!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: water heater sediment

                      Originally posted by Chemeng View Post
                      Oh well, you warned him Rick!!!
                      Yeah, thanks for that. Cause Rick knows all there is to know about tankless in my area. I have a tankless in my own house that I live with everyday. I am well aware of the ups and downs of a tankless heater. I also know my good friend has a 8 year old 75 gallon heater that doesnt work worth a crap.

                      Andy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: water heater sediment

                        Woudn't you think, that knowing what we know about water heaters, we would all have stock in the companies that make the ones that fail most often.

                        Hell, they could make water heaters that would last 30 years, but pretty soon they wouldn't be selling too many heaters. Built in obsolescence.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: water heater sediment

                          If he did have a dip tube failure it could be particles stuck in the gravity loop. That would surprise me though. Air lock is the most common cause but the hosebibb should have corrected that. Sediment will stop the flow at the drain connection but not after only 6 months.

                          I've installed dozens of tankless heaters mostly Rinnai and a few Noritz. I prefer the Rinnai. After the shock at the initial cost, all I've heard is praise about them from my customers. What's the long term prognosis of tankless? I don't know. Just make sure you get the right tankless for the application.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: water heater sediment

                            Put a Grundfos or B&G pump on that recirc line. If you want, put an air scoop or Maid o' Mist on it to get rid of the air.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: water heater sediment

                              I vote dip tube

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