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Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

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  • Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

    I am experiencing pretty bad water pressure in a house. Essentially only one faucet can operate at a decent pressure at a time in an entire house.

    I went to investigate and discovered the situation as pictured n the files i attached. The city water comes in in 3/4'' pipe, immediately after the valve it transitions into 1/2'', then back into 3/4'' and appears to use a 3/4'' meter and then back to 1/2'' for the rest of the house.

    Having plumbing experience - i was going to remove the 1/2'' piping and make sure that the water is distributed within the house with 3/4'' before splitting up into individual branches supplying the faucets at 1/2''.

    However i am not quite sure what to do with the meter - does it look right to you all the way it is installed? I am used to seeing meters "in-line" with the water passing through it. However here it appears like it is installed on a separate branch. What is up with that? My thought was that maybe it was installed to minimize the flow through the meter to cheat the water department? Is the proper installation - is to redo it "in-line"? Basically i need to know whether it is some sort of special meter and how it should be hooked up when i go to redo the lines.

    Sorry for long explanation. Please help. Thanks!

    vincent.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

    That meter is installed on a yoke as specified by your water department. I would have the water department reinstall the meter with a 3/4" yoke and line to the meter then after the meter run as one would normally

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    • #3
      Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

      The second pic is hard to figure out, the one on the left looks ok, and that globe valve before the meter, I would question the pressure as it being a concern. they're not full port..try a gate valve instead...
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

        That is an old meter setup, many are still like that in Philly. With minimal piping work you can pipe it inline. Simply start by getting rid of the 1/2" pipe. Make sure not to break the copper bond though

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        • #5
          Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

          The water department will not touch the meter. They own the main in the street only. The homeowner is responsible from the tap into the house. Change out the valve also

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          • #6
            Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

            Originally posted by jjaplumbing View Post
            The water department will not touch the meter. They own the main in the street only. The homeowner is responsible from the tap into the house. Change out the valve also
            The H.O. / contractor will need the water department to come in and "re-seal" the meter. Besides that I always thought that the actual meter belongs to the water department no? I can see 1/2" going into the yoke and 3/4" it looks like coming out wont the yoke need to be replaced to 3/4"x3/4" vs. its existing 1/2" x 3/4," besides taht I always though that it was illegal for anyone other than the water department to shut a curb box?

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            • #7
              Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

              The water dept technically owns the meter, but will not touch it. If you call they will tell you to call a plumber. It is only illegal to touch a curb cock if there are violations still present at the property. I guess the main factor here is that you are dealing with big city government and they don't want to get involed

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              • #8
                Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

                Thank you for all your replies.

                The valve pictured needs to be replaced since it leaks and doesn't allow the water to be shut off completely. And this presents me with a problem - i have to plan ahead that it might be very hard for me to obtain cooperation from the water department, as well as locate the curbside shut-off - it may have been burried (previous attempts to locate it have failed) or be located in a sewer manhole.

                With this in mind i was considering cutting off the valve and with the water gushing pushing on a SharkBite valve (my only other alternative was to find someone with freezing equipment?). With that in place i was going to in-line the meter (please clarify - so it is really ok to convert from the "saddle" installation to "in-line"? I won't damage the meter by doing so?).

                Also, are there any considerations when disconnecting/reconnecting the meter? It won't go into a "shutdown" mode of ay kind? It doesn't have any curcuitry that deals with tampering?

                I really appreciate so many replies so soon! Thanks!

                vincent.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

                  If you cant find the curb box the water dept may have an approximate area for it, but you can visualize where it comes out of the basement and it will be in a straight line to the main. It will be located in the strip of grass between the sidewalk and the curb, start digging...after it warms up.

                  Any supplyhouse will be able to hook you up with 3/4 sweat by 1/2 female adaptors and 5/8 meter couplings. When you disconnect the meter be sure to hook up jumper cables from the incoming pipe to after the meter, just in case of grounding problems. There is no shutdown mode.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

                    You are messing with things that you probably shouldn't be

                    Have the water department do a locate and shut down at the curb cock. I can assure you it's NOT inside the manhole Then have a plumber install a quality ball valve on BOTH sides of the meter. Repipe 3/4" copper in and out of the meter yoke. The plumber can turn the water back on at the curb when he's done.

                    It might end up costing you 2 or 3 hundred dollars but better than flooding your basement and going without water for a few days while you run back and forth to Home Depot.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

                      Originally posted by Vincent Evans View Post
                      Thank you for all your replies.

                      The valve pictured needs to be replaced since it leaks and doesn't allow the water to be shut off completely. And this presents me with a problem - i have to plan ahead that it might be very hard for me to obtain cooperation from the water department, as well as locate the curbside shut-off - it may have been burried (previous attempts to locate it have failed) or be located in a sewer manhole.

                      With this in mind i was considering cutting off the valve and with the water gushing pushing on a SharkBite valve (my only other alternative was to find someone with freezing equipment?). With that in place i was going to in-line the meter (please clarify - so it is really ok to convert from the "saddle" installation to "in-line"? I won't damage the meter by doing so?).

                      Also, are there any considerations when disconnecting/reconnecting the meter? It won't go into a "shutdown" mode of ay kind? It doesn't have any curcuitry that deals with tampering?

                      I really appreciate so many replies so soon! Thanks!

                      vincent.



                      I would forget about using SharkBites for this application. I don't think you have enough pipe upstream to do a freeze seal. Just shut the curb stop.

                      The malfunctioning globe valve may be part of your reduced flow problem. If might have deteriorated to the point where part of the disc has broken off and is partially blocking flow through the valve or it may have traveled downstream and be causing a partial blockage somewhere else such as at the meter or that 3/4" x 1/2" ell, it most likely would not have gotten past the meter though.

                      While you are at it, I think that old nipple on a string is a candidate for the dumpster. Is that the old gas light piping coming thru the wall next to the water? Looks like 1-1/4". My old house was piped for gas lights when it was built in 1905 and it had a 1-1/2" line coming in from the street.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      ---------------
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                      ---------------
                      “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
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                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

                        Originally posted by Vincent Evans View Post
                        Thank you for all your replies.

                        The valve pictured needs to be replaced since it leaks and doesn't allow the water to be shut off completely. And this presents me with a problem - i have to plan ahead that it might be very hard for me to obtain cooperation from the water department, as well as locate the curbside shut-off - it may have been burried (previous attempts to locate it have failed) or be located in a sewer manhole.

                        With this in mind i was considering cutting off the valve and with the water gushing pushing on a SharkBite valve (my only other alternative was to find someone with freezing equipment?). With that in place i was going to in-line the meter (please clarify - so it is really ok to convert from the "saddle" installation to "in-line"? I won't damage the meter by doing so?).

                        Also, are there any considerations when disconnecting/reconnecting the meter? It won't go into a "shutdown" mode of ay kind? It doesn't have any curcuitry that deals with tampering?

                        I really appreciate so many replies so soon! Thanks!

                        vincent.
                        Dude, you're brave....don't try to rush and cram the shark bite, cause you need to chamfer(bevel) the end of the pipe before putting it on....if you don't, you could pinch the o-ring. I really don't think you should use the shark bite.. sweating is always best..
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Picture of water meter, and question about legality of installation.

                          Do what PlumbersCrack said in post #10. Otherwise you are going to bite off more than you can chew!!

                          Do not let ANYBODY touch anything in your house until the Water Department has verified the location and operation of the curb stop. Trust me, that is important!!
                          If you stopped paying your water bill they would be able to find it and make it work, they should be able to find it so repairs can be done.

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