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  • well from he77



    ok i get a call, no water pressure so i start to trouble shoot the well. The pump is constantly running but not building up anything greater than 25 psi, pressure switch is set to 30-50. I start inside with the controls, 240v at the pressure swith, control box tests out ok so then i check the resistance going to the pump, i get 0 ohms, control box says i am looking for betwen 3 and 4! ok windings bad no big deal lets pull the pump. The pump is 20 years old.

    What a nightmare. homeowner built a wishing well above the casing built from fieldstone with a cedar roof that was mortared into the "ring". pull up the pitless to find sch 40 pvc brittle as all hell, keep in mind i have the "roof" above me so i cant put the "halo" on my up-z-daisy and after the up-z-daisy is mounted on the casing i only have like 3 feet to work with before i hit the roof.

    each piece i pulled out had to be cut into three foot sections. the pump was only 140' down thank god because it took forever just to get that 140' out. so anyway the well is drilled to 270' accoring to the paperwork. so i set the pump a little bit deeper as the homeowner has run out of water in the past. I set the well to about 180' deep.

    I left last night and everything seemed to be working well. this morning i get a call at 8:00 am.......same problem with the well. I checked everything again today, checked voltage, amp draw, resistance, everything checks out ok this time but the pump wont pump past 25 psi, once i turn more than one fixture on i get a drizzle.

    I installed a 3/4 HP Goulds 5 GPM pump which should work perfect. Is it possible there isnt enough water in the well? I know the pump is good it worked last night?!? am i missing something? check valve bad? I have been overanalyzing this too much and it could be something really stupid.

    Sorry about the novel! Thanks in advance for anyones help...... Comon' JC i know you can solve this!

  • #2
    Re: well from he77

    Does the system hold pressure?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: well from he77

      shut off the well for a hr or so, and then turn it on and see if it pumps for some time, and if it then stops building pressure,
      (letting water hose or some thing run some where top side.)

      I would think if that is the case your pump may be pumping more than the well can supply,
      pumping the standing water in the casing and then pumping it down. so it can not pump up pressure, (I would think air would be in the line as well if that is the case),

      even tho the well may be deep it may not be in the best of the water table it if has drooped, and or the screen may be plugged up on the casing,

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      been thinking some, I know it is dangerous for me to think,
      but if no water is being used top side, even if the flow of the well was as low as even a quart a min, in a number of Min's it should fill depth so the pump should be able to pump enought water to build pressure to shut off the pump,

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      the other thought is a leak in the drop pipe, (or some other pipe in the system) and if just cant build enough pressure to shut down, you may be able to put your ear on the pipe and hear some thing, (but if you just put in new pipe that does not seem likely).
      Last edited by BHD; 08-21-2009, 09:38 PM.
      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
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      Comment


      • #4
        Re: well from he77

        Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post


        ok i get a call, no water pressure so i start to trouble shoot the well. The pump is constantly running but not building up anything greater than 25 psi, pressure switch is set to 30-50. I start inside with the controls, 240v at the pressure swith, control box tests out ok so then i check the resistance going to the pump, i get 0 ohms, control box says i am looking for betwen 3 and 4! ok windings bad no big deal lets pull the pump. The pump is 20 years old.

        What a nightmare. homeowner built a wishing well above the casing built from fieldstone with a cedar roof that was mortared into the "ring". pull up the pitless to find sch 40 pvc brittle as all hell, keep in mind i have the "roof" above me so i cant put the "halo" on my up-z-daisy and after the up-z-daisy is mounted on the casing i only have like 3 feet to work with before i hit the roof.

        each piece i pulled out had to be cut into three foot sections. the pump was only 140' down thank god because it took forever just to get that 140' out. so anyway the well is drilled to 270' accoring to the paperwork. so i set the pump a little bit deeper as the homeowner has run out of water in the past. I set the well to about 180' deep.

        I left last night and everything seemed to be working well. this morning i get a call at 8:00 am.......same problem with the well. I checked everything again today, checked voltage, amp draw, resistance, everything checks out ok this time but the pump wont pump past 25 psi, once i turn more than one fixture on i get a drizzle.

        I installed a 3/4 HP Goulds 5 GPM pump which should work perfect. Is it possible there isnt enough water in the well?

        That's not a bad guess. Seen it happen with the same results you describe. You usually notice the amount of water on the old pipe when you pull it. So if you have, say-a 6" casing, the last 15' you pull is the only thing wet, AND the well stamp (hopefully on the casing or owner info) shows it producing X GPM-Then you can kind of calculate if it's unable to keep up with demand.
        I know the pump is good it worked last night?!? am i missing something?

        check valve bad?
        Possible, but I doubt it. Shut everything down after you reach the 25 PSI. If it holds, percentage wise it should hold the higher pressures as well.

        I have been overanalyzing this too much and it could be something really stupid.

        Sorry about the novel! Thanks in advance for anyones help...... Comon' JC i know you can solve this!
        Oh the pressure! You know your wells man, you'll get it.

        Last one I, or should I say WE pulled (Had help that was stronger than I am) did it by hand. 200' of 160psi black PE pipe that snapped every 5'. Break, get drowned, pull, break, get drowned. I feel your aggravation.

        Pump running and no water typically means: Bad pump, no water, leak.

        I believe the pump is good. Leads us to leak or no water. You could have an underground leak somewhere. I've also seen a hosebibb, tee to another house that was running etc. that would keep the psi down. And a leak in the well somehow. But I doubt you have that mistake. You replaced the pump and all components in the well, right?

        Puts you back to supply. Ask them has their use changed? People moved back home? Watering the lawn? New animals at the barn? Pool or whirlpool?

        How much rain have you had?

        You'll get it. Post what you find.

        J.C.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: well from he77

          Sounds like the pump may need to be set deeper, I have run across this more than once.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: well from he77

            Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post


            ok i get a call, no water pressure so i start to trouble shoot the well. The pump is constantly running but not building up anything greater than 25 psi, pressure switch is set to 30-50. I start inside with the controls, 240v at the pressure swith, control box tests out ok so then i check the resistance going to the pump, i get 0 ohms, control box says i am looking for betwen 3 and 4! ok windings bad no big deal lets pull the pump. The pump is 20 years old.

            What a nightmare. homeowner built a wishing well above the casing built from fieldstone with a cedar roof that was mortared into the "ring". pull up the pitless to find sch 40 pvc brittle as all hell, keep in mind i have the "roof" above me so i cant put the "halo" on my up-z-daisy and after the up-z-daisy is mounted on the casing i only have like 3 feet to work with before i hit the roof.

            each piece i pulled out had to be cut into three foot sections. the pump was only 140' down thank god because it took forever just to get that 140' out. so anyway the well is drilled to 270' accoring to the paperwork. so i set the pump a little bit deeper as the homeowner has run out of water in the past. I set the well to about 180' deep.

            I left last night and everything seemed to be working well. this morning i get a call at 8:00 am.......same problem with the well. I checked everything again today, checked voltage, amp draw, resistance, everything checks out ok this time but the pump wont pump past 25 psi, once i turn more than one fixture on i get a drizzle.

            I installed a 3/4 HP Goulds 5 GPM pump which should work perfect. Is it possible there isnt enough water in the well? I know the pump is good it worked last night?!? am i missing something? check valve bad? I have been overanalyzing this too much and it could be something really stupid.

            Sorry about the novel! Thanks in advance for anyones help...... Comon' JC i know you can solve this!
            I should have paid closer attention. The homeowner saying "they have run out of water in the past" is a big red flag. I find people all the time will not tell you the complete truth. Usually out of embarrassment rather than anything malicious. Washing tons of clothes almost compulsively or something similar.

            You have some distance to set it deeper. I always look for well production, static level, depth of well, & casing diameter to get an idea of what kind of production can be expected from the well system. Obviously all of these are not always available making it more difficult and frustrating.

            Good luck.

            J.C.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: well from he77

              Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
              Does the system hold pressure?
              yep held pressure. 25 psi overnite didnt budge. i turned the switch off last night when i left and shut the valve to the house. it didnt move. new pressure gauge by the way i know it works.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: well from he77

                Originally posted by BHD View Post
                shut off the well for a hr or so, and then turn it on and see if it pumps for some time, and if it then stops building pressure,
                (letting water hose or some thing run some where top side.)

                I would think if that is the case your pump may be pumping more than the well can supply,
                pumping the standing water in the casing and then pumping it down. so it can not pump up pressure, (I would think air would be in the line as well if that is the case),

                even tho the well may be deep it may not be in the best of the water table it if has drooped, and or the screen may be plugged up on the casing,

                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                been thinking some, I know it is dangerous for me to think,
                but if no water is being used top side, even if the flow of the well was as low as even a quart a min, in a number of Min's it should fill depth so the pump should be able to pump enought water to build pressure to shut off the pump,

                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                the other thought is a leak in the drop pipe, (or some other pipe in the system) and if just cant build enough pressure to shut down, you may be able to put your ear on the pipe and hear some thing, (but if you just put in new pipe that does not seem likely).
                the system is leak free i pressure tested it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: well from he77

                  Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                  Oh the pressure! You know your wells man, you'll get it.

                  Last one I, or should I say WE pulled (Had help that was stronger than I am) did it by hand. 200' of 160psi black PE pipe that snapped every 5'. Break, get drowned, pull, break, get drowned. I feel your aggravation.

                  Pump running and no water typically means: Bad pump, no water, leak.

                  I believe the pump is good. Leads us to leak or no water. You could have an underground leak somewhere. I've also seen a hosebibb, tee to another house that was running etc. that would keep the psi down. And a leak in the well somehow. But I doubt you have that mistake. You replaced the pump and all components in the well, right?

                  Puts you back to supply. Ask them has their use changed? People moved back home? Watering the lawn? New animals at the barn? Pool or whirlpool?

                  How much rain have you had?

                  You'll get it. Post what you find.

                  J.C.
                  yes all components replaced. drop pipe, wire, torque arrestor, control box, pressure switch.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: well from he77

                    Originally posted by Plumbducky View Post
                    Sounds like the pump may need to be set deeper, I have run across this more than once.
                    i am going to set the pump at 10' off of the bottom this morning, i really dont want to go any deeper than that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: well from he77

                      Someone spent a lot of money drilling a 270' well. Why would the pump be set at only half that depth?

                      I agree, going deeper will help with water supply.

                      10 feet off bottom seems to low. Won't it suck mud?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: well from he77

                        Drill a hole in the roof for new galvy pipe
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: well from he77

                          i've only come across 1 well in my travels.

                          so i will be of little help

                          but a 5gpm pump is pretty low flow unless you have a storage tank or good size bladder.

                          do they have a bladder and what is the pre-charge pressure? is it holding pressure?

                          is 5gpm all the water they can deliver to the system?

                          how do they do anything more than a shower head? flush the toilet and the pressure falls off.

                          i'm a city slicker. educate me you country boys

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: well from he77

                            Good point Rick, if the well tank bladder is gone then the tank will be waterlogged. This would make the pump short cycle. Pressure would be satisfied quickly unless there was a draw from water use in the system. This would be lost quickly causing the pump to short cycle.

                            IIRC the pre-charge of the tank (with the water side vented to atmosphere and no water in tank) should be 2PSI below the cut-in pressure of the switch.
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                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: well from he77

                              I agree that the 5 gpm pump seems a little on the low side but, who knows? Typically we install a 10gpm pump at the minimum.

                              10 feet off the bottom should be good, don't think it will suck mud, since it should be well into the aquafier.

                              Comment

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