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confused by plumbers

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  • confused by plumbers

    have two plumbers come to quote oil to gas conversion for my 1600sqft one story house plus heated full basement in CT

    plumber A has suggested to install Munchkin 199M.
    Munchin 199M info:
    a. input modulation is 66,000 to 199,000
    b. DOE heating is 61,000 to 183,000,
    c. AFUE is 95.1%

    plumber B has suggested to install Weil-McLain Ultra 105.
    Weil-McLain Ultra 105 info:
    a. CAS Input is 21MBHto 105MBH
    b. DOE heating Cap is 94MBH
    c. DOE AFUE is 92%

    1. does the boiler capacity difference is big?
    2. which one is more closer to right capacity?


  • #2
    Re: confused by plumbers

    You start with a heat loss analysis . WE HAVE NO INFO!
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .


    • #3
      Re: confused by plumbers

      house built in 1951, 8' ceiling, one floor, 1600 sqf, basement is the same size with 14 small windows, upper floor walls have about half windows, attic installation is good, but no idea about the wall installation. windows condition is fair.
      any more info needed?


      • #4
        Re: confused by plumbers

        If you are confused, maybe try calling a couple more contractors for an estimate. You could also track down the manufacture rep, and they can design a system for you. But whom ever designs a system has to have a look at your home to do a proper heat loss analysis.
        Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
        Ron's Facebook
        A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
        Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
        Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing


        • #5
          Re: confused by plumbers

          A proper heat loss analysis involves dialing all the factors you mentioned, and more. It is not such a difficult process, especially today when any good contractor has a program on his laptop.

          But pulling a system out of your $@# is not a good idea. With the cost of energy today, and the fact that you do live in a place where it gets cold enough to matter....under-powering OR overpowering a system will cost you in comfort and $$$.

          I am not a heating expert at all ( it doesn't get cold here in S. Calif). So I cannot offer comparisons of those two systems. Others will offer that info, and you could probably go to company websites for info.

          Here, heat is more or less an afterthought. We put heat in houses more or less because the building code requires it, not because anyone really uses it much! And I would be naive to tell you that the air conditioning systems are always designed as I described above for your heat. There are plenty of folks who will just wing-it, and to some extent, with A/C, you can get away with that. Not that you don't end up with less than optimum performance, but just that you can "get away with it".


          • #6
            Re: confused by plumbers

   cost 50.00

            I did it......although it took some time. Now you have the knowelege first hand. Most installers won;t do one.....Find one that will, your more like to get a quaility install


            • #7
              Re: confused by plumbers

              Well the fact that you are switching to gas is an excellent move.

              As for the boiler, I would go with the Weil Mclain,

              I used to install those all the time, and they are great boilers.

              Just my opinion


              • #8
                Re: confused by plumbers

                WrenchSpinner had a site with a heat loss calculation chart on here a while ago. Maybe search him out and private message him with your question. Someone else might know the thread I am talking about, but I cant remember where it is! I agree with PlumbingSkool about the Well Mclain boilers, they are good machines indeed.
                Good luck with your project.


                • #9
                  Re: confused by plumbers

                  i have put in a couple of the Munchkins and i like them very quiet

                  My seek the peek fundraiser page


                  new work pictures 12/09


                  • #10
                    Re: confused by plumbers

                    One of your plumbers is WAY off base. I'm guessing it's plumber A. 1600 sq foot single story shouldn't need 199,000 btus but a 105,000 might be cutting it close in your climate. Munchkin makes a 140,000 and Weil Mclain makes a 155,000 that may be more in your wheelhouse.

                    Chapter 6 for the heat loss calc.

                    I sell and install Weil Mclain boilers and love them except for the Ultra line. Here's my review of the Ultra from another thread:
                    Where to start?...I prefer to hang them on the wall to save floor space. The hanger does not provide adaquate support for the unit. All piping typically exits through the top but can be piped from below. It gets very crowded up top with all wiring, gas, flue intake/exhaust, supply/return and primary/secondary piping.
                    If you have never installed an Ultra before take my advice and do the wiring first then the flue piping and tie in the supply and return last. This is the exact opposite of a normal install. The wiring terminals are behind the flue pipes. If you have to get back in there after the flue piping goes in... forget it. All that money for that unit and no circulator relay built in. WTF? (supplied by others) Just an overall poor design IMO. The cover doesn't fit well and seems to have a lot of wasted space inside. Condensate line is exposed and subject to damage. Smallest temperature and pressure gauge on any heating equipment I have ever seen. Not a fan of the cast aluminum block. You need to be a tekkie to understand the control program functions.

                    I'm currently hooked on the new Slantfin high eff boilers. I have the Munchkin clone; Peerless Pinnacle in my own house and love it. She purrs real nice like HVAC Hawk said.


                    • #11
                      Re: confused by plumbers

                      Better to go to hvac forum and get their software. Bring 8 oz. gloves
                      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .


                      • #12
                        Re: confused by unprofessional plumbers

                        Heat load analysis is a must, as suggested by others. DIY heat load analysis is better than nothing, but a little like DIY surgery, knowing what to leave in and take out is the trick.

                        Choosing the right heating contractor should be easier.

                        When finished, the professional heating contractor should perform a combustion analysis. Not to be confused will "eye-balling" the burner.
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