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  • Well problems????

    Old well drilled pre 1928,

    steel 4" casing (in side about 3 5/8")

    300 foot depth

    water about 40' 260' to top,

    was setting for 20 years,

    pump in about 20' of water,

    the story
    SIL looking at this house/farmstead, (no water no good, doing with owners permission),

    hooked up generator, to pump jack, tried to pump, no water pumped over an hr,
    pulled well,
    found 1/4 hole in near bottom pipe,
    replace pipe, inspect cylinder and new leathers.
    reinstall, try to pump, pumps good at first few Min's, then starts to skip strokes then stops pumping all together and vacuum locks the pump jack,
    stop let set try some later, same story,

    pull well the cylinder is full of sand and rust, (may be operator error as didn't beat the pipe out, also raised the pump 9 feet,

    try again same results, and suction locks,

    pull the well again (made a camera to inspect the well casing) drop camera in well and inspect, can not see any damage or rot out above water line,

    put new deep well cylinder #449-b with ball valves and a sand point for screen, it had a #442 unit, on it with popit valves and a foot valve. about 4" of coarse screen. http://www.deanbennett.com/cylinder.htm

    try to pump, pumps about a 1/3 of pump capacity, seemed to have some suction issues at time, LUGS down the motor and the generator),

    when looking at the water it seem to have a scum on it (could not see under water),
    the water being pumped is very dirty looking, (no longer rusty) but dark dirt look,

    my thoughts are is to pump the "sludge" from bottom of well. (I know from the cylinder were in a some type of fine black silt/sand gunk and some sticks to the screen)

    what kind of pump to use,

    been reading bout air lifts, (not enough standing water to really make it work)

    I was considering a modified air lift system, some thing similar to this patent,
    #4,305,700 http://www.google.com/patents/about?...BAJ&dq=4305700

    on second page, there is a close up of the "pump" I figured a top check valve as well
    the air pressure would empty the cylinder sucking in the water by well column height pressure, add air blow the water out of the top, (do not use the strainer, (may be a pipe with 1/2 holes in it, and cap, so one does not stick it in the mud if any on bottom,
    (figuring one pump unit not multiple units,

    it looks like it would pump most any thing that could enter the bottom pipe,
    thinking of using a hard rubber ball for bottom check.

    (air compressor is a 60 CFM unit),

    any other Ideas, or suggestions?


    I know it may be time to drill a new well, but hopefully we could post pone the $12,000 dollar bill for a few years. (price the neighbor payed, a mile down the road, when replacing his old well, old well was still working but he wanted a new one),
    Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
    attributed to Samuel Johnson
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

  • #2
    Re: Well problems????

    the 1/4 inch hole was in the pump outlet line? that is typical for a drain back system. needs a hole to let the water in the line drain back to the well after it fill the pressure tank to keep the line from freezing, and to let the air out when you drop the pump in so the pump primes. though I usually see the hole at the top of the pipe coming up from the well, near the pitless adapter. the pump shold make enough that some pees out the hole when it's on but enough still come up to fill the tank.

    pretty typical to get a bunch of sediment out of a new well; they run them for a while after drilling to work that out... might be a similar situation when it's sat that long.

    agree sounds like you are picking up sediment. you want the pump at least 10' above the bottom of the well to avoid that, more is better, the 20' you found it at sounds right to me, though I don't do a lot of this and can't quite remember. might just need to run it a bunch to work the sediment out if it is just from it sitting for so long, might just be done.

    did you put a new pump in? or replace some parts on the old? I'd be thinking about just replacing the pump.

    no experience with the air pump.

    any good well drillers in the area you can tap for knowledge?
    This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Well problems????

      the 1/4 hole was in the bottom pipe rusted through, there is a weep hole at the top.

      tryed the old pump repaired and put in a new pump fresh out of the box.
      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
      attributed to Samuel Johnson
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Well problems????

        sounds like you know at least as much as me about them...

        an obvious thing but I'll mention it anyway; 300' is pretty deep. Whats the head rating on the new pump you tried?

        what do you think was bogging down the pump? sediment/just grinding mud? blockage in vertical line?
        This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Well problems????

          the 449 cylinder is considered the deep well cylinder, and should be good for up to 1000 feet, the 442 is normally considered a shallow well cylinder, which was in there, but I have never seen figures of what is considered shallow in this instance, as I know there used a lot up to 300' deep, the big difference is the 442 is the closed top cylinder, in that the plunger is normally bigger than the drop pipe, the 449 is what is called a open top cylinder, and the plunger is smaller than the drop pipe, (normally) it is designed so you can pull the plunger up out of the pipe and change the leathers with out pulling the pipe.

          and in my experience, the 442 has what is called a popit valve, a flat seat with a rubber seat on a floating valve, the 449 in my experience uses a brass ball, and the seat is about 1/16" of an inch, nearly a knife edge, so rust or sand, does not effect it as much,

          I think what I have is a slurry of mud sand and possibly some type of bio fouling such as a iron Bactria or similar. http://welldrillingschool.com/course...ilitation2.pdf
          pages 4, 5, 6, talks about bio fouling. but I think I need to clean or pump out the gunk and then possibly treat it with acid, and if I do try to air lift pump out the gunk, I plan on agitate the well good with air at the same time, and then air pump it again, is my thoughts.

          until I get the slime and stuff out of the well that is plugging the pump screens, will I really be able to tell if the well is salvageable.
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Well problems????

            my expertise is w/ submersibles and jet pumps, how about a submersible for your application?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Well problems????

              the casing is small, and would take a very expensive special small diameter unit, and currently the sand would destroy it, the well man said don't put a submersible down it,

              may be OK if I can get it cleaned out,
              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
              attributed to Samuel Johnson
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Well problems????

                in tools old stomping ground (cape cod and the islands) we used to put down 3" submersible pumps all the time, they werent much more tha a trdaitional 4" maybe $60 or $70 more... as for the sand we never really had a problem

                Comment

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