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  • Tankless in a pizza resturant

    I have not looked at the job yet but have been asked if a tankless water heater would be a good fit for this customer. They what their whole HVAC system replaced and figured they would do this also. I like tankless but I don't think it would be good in a resturant with all the water that they use. Would a high efficient tank be a better solution? And also the cold water sandwich is a concern also. Any comments would be appropriated.
    DIRTFT

  • #2
    Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

    I say no. Maybe an A.O. Smith Vertex or some similar High Efficiency storage.

    J.C.
    Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 01-08-2010, 09:16 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

      My opinion would be no. I personally would not want the responsibility of that decision on my shoulders. A manu. would have some input about that. I'd be interested to see what they have to say also. I'm sure if they do that, they have some flagships out there.

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      • #4
        Re: Tankless in a pizza restaurant

        Why not, among the list of restaurants specifying them are-
        Pizza Hut, Wendy's, Hooters, Panera Bread, I could go on

        It comes down to what maximum or peak flow they desire and at what temp rise, know that and your selection should be easy.

        The usual hang up is the dishwasher and if it is a high temp machine, that's where you need to be careful, depending if it is timed fill, fresh water rinse, and elevated temp.

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        • #5
          Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

          There is no issue in installing a tankless system in a restaurant. You just have to size it accordingly. I have done ones where they needed 6 units to deal with peak demand, and others where a single unit can handle the peak demand. But in the single unit situations I still install at least two units. This way there is redundancy in case one fails.

          You can go with a Takagi T-M32 which is two units in one enclosure so you only need to pipe in the plumbing and venting for a single unit, but internally their is two heat exchangers with independent burners and flow controls.

          But if you are to install a tankless unit I would recommend going with a direct vent unit. This way you can ensure you are getting clean combustion air along with not dealing with the negative air pressures in restaurants.
          Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
          Ron's Facebook
          A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
          Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
          Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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          • #6
            Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

            Any pics with that 6 unit install? Seems like a lot of BS to me. In what setting was that done? Thanks

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            • #7
              Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

              Originally posted by stokefire7 View Post
              Any pics with that 6 unit install? Seems like a lot of BS to me. In what setting was that done? Thanks
              It was done in a fine dining restaurant in the middle of the place between the bar and kitchen. They have a few of their restaurants in the area the other ones have 5 units installed handing all their needs.

              I have to head there to reset a water closet for them I will take pictures for you then. I will even put a flier of mine on one of the heaters so you will know I am not bullshitting you.

              Here is a multi-unit install from Noritz website.

              Attached Files
              Last edited by SewerRatz; 01-08-2010, 12:44 PM.
              Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
              Ron's Facebook
              A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
              Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
              Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

                That does free up a lot of room.

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                • #9
                  Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

                  Originally posted by stokefire7 View Post
                  That does free up a lot of room.
                  When you see the pics of the ones I am talking about, you see it is nice they have them up on the wall like that sadly though they put their liqueur cage right under them so servicing them is a bit of a job.
                  Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                  Ron's Facebook
                  A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                  Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                  Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

                    I'v done half a dozen or so all residential. Mostly Rinnai. No commercial. Haven't had any problems this far except one. Community well and flash heating, not good.
                    .
                    Last edited by stokefire7; 01-08-2010, 01:41 PM. Reason: changed my mind

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                    • #11
                      Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

                      The PG&E Food Service Technology Center has run extensive on site analyzes of different restaurant scenarios (steak house, fast food, diner, etc.) comparing tankless water heaters with conventional tank heaters and found no energy savings with tankless heaters. Of course, they do take up less valuable space. Check it out: http://www.fishnick.com/searchresult...aters&sa=#1060












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                      • #12
                        Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

                        Originally posted by Plumbus View Post
                        The PG&E Food Service Technology Center has run extensive on site analyzes of different restaurant scenarios (steak house, fast food, diner, etc.) comparing tankless water heaters with conventional tank heaters and found no energy savings with tankless heaters. Of course, they do take up less valuable space. Check it out: http://www.fishnick.com/searchresult...aters&sa=#1060









                        Good info. I'm going to look at the job now and see what can be done. I'll post an updatewhen I know more of what their needs and wants are.



                        DIRTFT

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                        • #13
                          Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

                          Over the summer, I put in a Rinnai in a national chain restauraunt store here.

                          The unit was spec'd by corporate.

                          They wanted it because they thought they'd save a ton of money.

                          I wanted it because this building is EXTREMELY light on make up air and they won't deal with that issue. The Rinnai takes that out of the equation.

                          During the pricing phase, I questioned the corp. engineer because I was thought they might need two. My concern was the winter months.

                          I was basically told I didn't know anything -do as I was asked.

                          Guess what? today I get a call- not enough hot water.

                          Unit set at 130 degrees with cold water temp at 46 degrees.

                          The Rinnai was throttling back the flow to maintain the 130 degrees and a prerinse faucet was bleeding the cold into the hot because of the restricted flow at the heater.

                          The easy, but not necessarily correct solution was check valves on the supplies to the faucet. That stops the bleed over, but hot water flow sucks on high draw devices.

                          Manager was all over me like stink on ugly until I informed him that His superiors were warned ON PAPER before the job was done.

                          I see you're in Buffalo. DON'T FORGET THE COLDER INCOMING WATER TEMPS OF THE WINTER!!!!
                          Last edited by lmpg; 01-08-2010, 08:39 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

                            Here is a pic of two in a new DELCO Pizza Hut here.

                            Anyone see anything missing?
                            Attached Files

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                            • #15
                              Re: Tankless in a pizza resturant

                              Originally posted by Plumbus View Post
                              The PG&E Food Service Technology Center has run extensive on site analyzes of different restaurant scenarios (steak house, fast food, diner, etc.) comparing tankless water heaters with conventional tank heaters and found no energy savings with tankless heaters. Of course, they do take up less valuable space. Check it out: http://www.fishnick.com/searchresult...aters&sa=#1060
                              The restaurants that I have put in tankless water heaters over their 120 gallon 800K BTU heaters have noticed a huge savings in gas consumption. I do not know how they do not see an energy savings. The tankless heaters are only using BTU's during a demand state. So when there is no demand (when the place is closed) the heaters do not run unlike a tank heater.

                              One place I was in had a 250K 80 gallon heater right near the fire sprinkler RPZ I was testing. No one was there running any water when I tested the RPZ, in the hour it took me alert the alarm company do the test write up the paperwork, the heater ran 5 times to reheat the 80 gallons of water. Now when I put in two tankless units for them they called me after the first few months to inform me they are saving over $350 a month with the tankless water heaters.


                              Originally posted by lmpg View Post
                              Here is a pic of two in a new DELCO Pizza Hut here.

                              Anyone see anything missing?
                              The interconnect wire between the two units? Vacuum relief valve?
                              Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                              Ron's Facebook
                              A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                              Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                              Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                              Comment

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