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  • #16
    Re: Looking for a pump?

    Originally posted by stokefire7 View Post
    Would a submersible work?


    Tsurumi Pumps Submersible Water Pump — 3810 GPH, 2/3 HP, 2in., Model# LB4-80

    Compact; excellent motor cooling efficiency. Allows continuous duty operation at low water levels, plus extended dry run capability. V-ring system protects shaft seal from abrasives. Silicon carbide-faced mechanical seal. 2in. discharge bore. Includes 32ft. cable. Not for use in
    Possibly. ALL ideas are appreciated and explorable. Details & criteria:

    Pumping 500 gallons as quickly as possible. Preferably in about 5 minutes.
    Approximately 10' of vertical head.
    About 25' of pipe run for friction loss currently.
    Currently 5 or 6-90 Degree turns for friction factor.
    Must be reliable.
    Must perform the task 50 times a day.
    Must have a reasonable service life.

    I'll check that pump out along with others.

    Thanks.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Looking for a pump?

      is the fitting/pipe that brings water to the pump 1 1/4?

      that will be the limiting feature.

      you can blow 100gpm through 1 1/4 on the outlet side of the pump, given the right pump and enough pressure capability on the outlet line, but at some point you'll cavitate the pump if the inlet is too small.

      I think you'll need at least a 4" inlet, the bigger and more unrestricted the better.

      a submersible gets rid of the inlet problem, but these tend to be centrifugals, which are best for high volume/low head applications. To make a centrifugal work, you will need a big outlet line, 3" or bigger, to keep the head losses down to where it will move the volume you want. centrifugals come in non-submersible as well, and that might be the best option, but if you look at them you'll see that they all have significantly bigger inlets than outlets... a 3" outlet will have a 4 or six inch inlet.

      you'll need either a big submersible inside the tank (which makes it less serviceable) with a 3" or better outlet, or to change it so yo have a 6" or so inlet line and a 3" or so outlet.

      I think you need to find a good pump rep and have him help you size a pump and design the installation.
      This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Looking for a pump?

        Originally posted by Ace Sewer View Post
        is the fitting/pipe that brings water to the pump 1 1/4?

        that will be the limiting feature.


        you can blow 100gpm through 1 1/4 on the outlet side of the pump, given the right pump and enough pressure capability on the outlet line, but at some point you'll cavitate the pump if the inlet is too small.

        I think you'll need at least a 4" inlet, the bigger and more unrestricted the better.

        a submersible gets rid of the inlet problem, but these tend to be centrifugals, which are best for high volume/low head applications. To make a centrifugal work, you will need a big outlet line, 3" or bigger, to keep the head losses down to where it will move the volume you want. centrifugals come in non-submersible as well, and that might be the best option, but if you look at them you'll see that they all have significantly bigger inlets than outlets... a 3" outlet will have a 4 or six inch inlet.

        you'll need either a big submersible inside the tank (which makes it less serviceable) with a 3" or better outlet, or to change it so yo have a 6" or so inlet line and a 3" or so outlet.

        I think you need to find a good pump rep and have him help you size a pump and design the installation.
        That's the exact question I've been trying to get from the beginning. Does a pump such as the Grundfos in the pic actually suck from the tank while also driving on the outlet side without the head pressure being necessary.

        Most distributors here get crosseyed with my questions.

        J.C.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Looking for a pump?

          something like this

          http://www.magnatexpumps.com/mta.htm

          in the a10

          look at the curves in blue.

          just an example; never seen these pumps. I'd shop around for a good rep with an eye to one who stocks parts locally for service, and use the brand he likes.

          something like this can never be done properly for cheap, so put the effort into getting it right, both the initial installation and down the road service.

          I'd oversize the thing, especially the inlet, also the outlet but especially the inlet as nothing eats an impeller like cavitation (except sand). you can always throttle the outlet if you need to. Also, I'd be wanting to install it with TONS of room around it and valving so a guy could swap it out easily when it dies.
          This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Looking for a pump?

            it doesn't 'suck' per se. it creates a void into which the water falls. the water is pushed into the pump by it's own weight and by atmospheric pressure.

            the inlet to the pump should free flow (or nearly... you get a little help from atmospheric pressure) the 100 gpm;

            it should nearly dump the 500 gal in 5 min on it's own if you had no pump and just let it fly out the bottom to avoid cavitating the pump.
            This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Looking for a pump?

              Thanks Ace. That's a beast!

              Interesting read....

              J.C.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Looking for a pump?

                Submersible well pumps that do 100 gpm come tapped 2". They can pass the 100 gpm without any problem. Drawing water with suction is a bit harder and the length and amount of elbows etc in the suction line will have a large effect on the volume to be pumped.

                The 3" suggested is a better size for drawing the water.

                The smallest pump in my book that will do 100 gpm is a REAL 3hp self priming centrifugal which has a REAL 3hp motor and the large pump end. Not the ones you see in the big box stores. They come with a 2", 2.5" or a 3" suction flange. Naturally the 3" offers less friction.
                Here's a snapshot of the pump. It weighs around 140 lbs.
                Attached Files
                Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Looking for a pump?

                  Originally posted by bartnc37 View Post
                  do you have a drain that will handle 100 gpm? other than that i would actually just put a big air compressor on the top of the tank and blow it out. If you do pump from the bottom make sure you have at least a 1.25 air inlet on top so the tank doesn't crush, assuming its a sealed vessel
                  Missed this post. Sorry.

                  The tank is completely open. Think of a big square tank with no top.

                  Thanks.

                  J.C.

                  Comment

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