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  • #16
    Re: replace copper with pex?

    Originally posted by Big Jim View Post
    Dude, are you off your meds, again?

    What? He said plastic pipe was quieter, simply not true.



    BTW - Get an avatar ,

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    • #17
      Re: replace copper with pex?

      LOL..It's all good.


      BTW - Get a life.

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      • #18
        Re: replace copper with pex?

        Originally posted by radar_40 View Post
        technically, it's the fittings that create the flow restriction....

        not the PEX itself

        But the simple answer is to upsize it by one pipe size to eliminate the issue.

        The balanced flow shower valve is an excellent recomendation... while you've got the walls open, you'd be silly not to do it.

        ---------------

        Help me support children’s cancer research CLICK HERE!
        At the OP, this is probably the best answer Well , its well said

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        • #19
          Re: replace copper with pex?

          Originally posted by 420paul View Post
          M copper is no longer code in MA. Why? Even with good water conditions it will typically last 30-60 years then pinholes will start to appear. If his home is more than 20 years old I would recomend replacing M copper while the walls are open.

          Pex is quieter than copper. Plastic is quieter than metal. Even a handyman can understand that. NOT better, but quieter.

          Pex has a smaller indide diameter than copper, also the fittings go inside the pipe unlike copper. There will be slightly less flow as a result. As I said before with properly installed pex you probably wouldn't notice any difference.

          I have never plumbed in NY, I stand by my statement. Copper manifolds are impractical in MOST residential applications.

          Of course you need to size the pipe right, however like I already said it has NOTHING to do with the OP's problem.

          I'm not a pex guy or a copper guy, I use both. It depends on the situation as to which one is better. In most applications I prefer copper.

          I'm not going to argue obvious facts with a handyman, with that said, you may have the last word.
          Originally posted by PlumbingSkool View Post
          Oh? Okay, We're on I disagree,





          Oh, so if M copper is within code in his area, you would recommend replacing it with L for no reason? Come on get serious , you don't need L just to be "the best"......in fact M copper is stronger then pex by far, Copper is NON-porous and can be put in sunlight , do that with good ole pex



          Oh? Prove that somehow, Please show me a reference, write up or something that proves that.....




          Oh? Prove that as well, in fact Pex may have better flow if there is less fittings in the runs as 90's restrict flow ........but then again, depends how the pex is run.

          ALSO - If you BEND copper instead of using fittings you could have a better system, but not many guys bend anymore .....or even know what is is.....




          Have you ever plumbed in NY, where all we use for track condo's is copper manifolds........well now its more pex, but for a 10 year period we all used to build copper manifold near the water heater in many track homes and condo's.


          This is true, but you also need to size the pipe right.......like I mentioned.



          Me to, AND it proves a point I have always lived by, its NOT the wand, its the wizard.



          Where's your avatar> 420 Paul?

          Ding Ding
          It's all relative to the code in HIS area. Maybe JHplumbing would care to chime in. He's near detroit I believe

          M is code in the city of chicago. not code in many surrounding suburbs. Just folllow the code. It's there for a reason.

          And guys, please be civil. There is no need for inflammatory comments in the "ask" section or anywhere on the RIDGID forum for that matter. That's why we all like this one so much. Not trying to be a jerk, I'm just sayin'.........

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          • #20
            Re: replace copper with pex?

            Originally posted by 420paul View Post
            With the walls open, now would be the time to put in a single handle pressure balanced valve. I would reccomend Symmons, Delta, or Moen.

            FYI, Symmons parts can be very difficult to get in the Midwest. Moen and Delta can be had at most hardware or home improvement stores.

            -Chris

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            • #21
              Re: replace copper with pex?

              Originally posted by 420paul View Post
              I prefer copper over pex, and would probably leave your copper as is if it's type L (thick grade copper) If it's type M (thin grade)I would consider replacing it with L copper. The easiest way to tell is you will see red writing for M and blue writing for L.

              M copper is no longer code in MA. Why? Even with good water conditions it will typically last 30-60 years then pinholes will start to appear. If his home is more than 20 years old I would recomend replacing M copper while the walls are open.
              There are a few situations where I would recommend PEX over copper some of the primary situations being aggressive water conditions that can eat through copper in a short amount of time, on a house in an area that may be vacant between tenants in a rough side of town where scrappers may visit. Detroit alone may be a good reason!

              As for Mass Code it applies in one state only.

              In my own home I would go with copper type L even though type M is allowed. That said I have put PEX in my own mothers home where aggressive water conditions warranted its use.

              Originally posted by 420paul View Post
              Plastic is quieter than metal. Even a handyman can understand that. NOT better, but quieter.
              I can't buy this as a blanket statement. I have listened to plastic pipe expand where it goes through wood making noise and as PlumbingSkool stated a cast iron stack is a quiet stack.

              Originally posted by 420paul View Post
              Copper manifolds are rare and usually impractical for a residential application.
              Evidently you have never done slab homes. There a tee below grade would be a hen's tooth.

              Originally posted by 420paul View Post
              If you are experiencing temperature spikes in your shower/tub it's because you don't have a pressure balanced valve. It has nothing to do with the size of your pipe. With the walls open, now would be the time to put in a single handle pressure balanced valve. I would reccomend Symmons, Delta, or Moen. Of course you need to size the pipe right, however like I already said it has NOTHING to do with the OP's problem.
              Temperature spikes have everything to do with improperly sized pipe! Why else would you get a pressure drop when another fixture is used other than improperly sized pipes? There are many homes that have no pressure balanced mixers where the users do not see temperature spikes. Of course pressure balancing does a marvelous job of covering up bad plumbing right down to the point where almost no water comes out of the mixer.

              While the Symmons is a great valve and is very popular in our area its popularity and availability is very regional. Also it would be my last choice if hard water or, aggressive water was present.

              I would agree that there is no room for inflammatory comments here maybe someone needs to take their 420 break and chill a bit...
              Last edited by Redwood; 03-12-2010, 04:59 PM.
              411 Plumb Appliance Stimulus Package

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              • #22
                Re: replace copper with pex?

                Just for the record you will all notice how much I have matured and have therefore managed thus far to keep my opinion to myself

                OK, I just figure that most of you have a pretty good idea what I think on the subject and there seems no point in going off on another rant.
                sigpic

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                • #23
                  Re: replace copper with pex?

                  Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                  Just for the record you will all notice how much I have matured and have therefore managed thus far to keep my opinion to myself

                  OK, I just figure that most of you have a pretty good idea what I think on the subject and there seems no point in going off on another rant.
                  Yes sir we all know all to well you are the lover of all pex. *grins evily*
                  Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                  Ron's Facebook
                  A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                  Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                  Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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                  • #24
                    Re: replace copper with pex?

                    Hey guys thanks for all the replies, i didnt expect this to turn into such a heated argument. I decided to go with copper, but run seperate hot and cold lines for each bathroom with a ballvalve shutoff in the basement. The copper now is a smaller size, what do you reccomend ? The big bathroom has 2 sinks, toilet and tub, the smaller will have a sink, shower and toilet...

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                    • #25
                      Re: replace copper with pex?

                      I recommend you call a plumber.

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                      • #26
                        Re: replace copper with pex?

                        Originally posted by gopher2 View Post
                        Hey guys thanks for all the replies, i didnt expect this to turn into such a heated argument. I decided to go with copper, but run seperate hot and cold lines for each bathroom with a ballvalve shutoff in the basement. The copper now is a smaller size, what do you reccomend ? The big bathroom has 2 sinks, toilet and tub, the smaller will have a sink, shower and toilet...

                        The correct and exact sizing and layout of the pipe would be difficult to explain without at least an isometric drawing of the location of the bathrooms in the home and the layout of each bathroom but...
                        You need to bring at least 3/4" hot and cold lines to EACH bathroom and branch out 1/2" lines from the risers to each fixture.

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                        • #27
                          Re: replace copper with pex?

                          Originally posted by gopher2 View Post
                          Hey guys thanks for all the replies, i didnt expect this to turn into such a heated argument. I decided to go with copper, but run seperate hot and cold lines for each bathroom with a ballvalve shutoff in the basement. The copper now is a smaller size, what do you reccomend ? The big bathroom has 2 sinks, toilet and tub, the smaller will have a sink, shower and toilet...
                          If the water in Detroit is acidic run PEX, or CPVC. If the water's not acidic if I were you I would install type L copper. Run a 3/4" line to each bathroom group and run 1/2" takeoffs to each fixture.

                          If you like your existing tub/shower valve... if it's classic, extremely high quality, the tile on the wall is ornate or unique, etc., you can always keep your existing tub shower valve and install a pressure balancing piston ahead of the tub/shower valve in the access panel area or in the basement below.
                          Time flies like an arrow.

                          Fruit flies like a banana.

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                          • #28
                            Re: replace copper with pex?

                            Around these parts we speak the Pex word in hushed tones in order not to invoke the wrath of old school plumbers that believe pex sucks.

                            Next we shall embark on our semi monthly knock down drag out concerning the subject of flat rate pricing followed by a truly ugly and epic battle waged over the various merits of sectional versus drum machines. All participants are responsible for their own health insurance.

                            You can find Liberals V conservatives in the general section under the subject line " Oh Crap... Here we go again"
                            sigpic

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                            • #29
                              Re: replace copper with pex?

                              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                              Just for the record you will all notice how much I have matured and have therefore managed thus far to keep my opinion to myself

                              OK, I just figure that most of you have a pretty good idea what I think on the subject and there seems no point in going off on another rant.
                              Oh please do your one of the best comedians on this forum and we all need a laugh once in a while.

                              Tony

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                              • #30
                                Re: replace copper with pex?

                                Copper= bactericidal= kills bacteria.

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