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  • #31
    Re: replace copper with pex?

    Folks, "on Feb 29, 2009 the EPA enviormental protection agency registered 275 copper alloy as antimicrobial materials. What's underlaying
    that registration? the fact that when undercoated, these alloys kill more than 99.9% of disease causing bacteria*, including MRSA and these solid
    materials can be used to make surfaces that are frequently touched, offering a second line of defense against bacteria* It is important to remember that the use of antimicrobial copper is a supplement to routine
    infection control practices, it doesn't act as a subsitute for them."

    why switch?

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    • #32
      Re: replace copper with pex?

      I apologise if I came across as a jerk. Not my intention. Guys like Redwood, NH master and many others here have forgot more than I know about plumbing. Much respect.

      With that said, yes I agree CI is much quieter than ABS or PVC (well it's fact). This was a pex copper discussion and I should have specified that in my comment-my bad. In my experience, pex seems to be quieter than copper.

      I do believe M copper should not be used for potable water. Not just because it's code here, but for a minimal extra cost, relative to the cost of a new house, type L can be used which will last much longer. We have excellent water here and I see M failing frequently, though usually it will last atleast 30 years (with quality water in a good neighborhood).

      With respect to copper manifolds, maybe I was wrong. I was guessing the majority of homes across the country piped with copper don't have a manifold. We have very few slab homes, almost all basements- if I am wrong then my bad.

      I would have to respectfully disagree about undersized waterpiping being a likely cause for a temperature spike in a tub/shower valve. 95 out of a 100 times a quality pressure balanced valve will solve this problem. If you have galvinized pipes that are corroding from the inside out, or your pipes are grossly undersized then replacing your water lines will help to an extent. Most of the time however, in my experience, this is not the cause. If you plumbed a new house and sized the pipe to code, yet for some reason installed a non pressure balanced shower valve, you would still have temperature spikes when other fixtures were running. If you considerably over sized your piping with a non balanced valve, then you probably wouldn't notice a spike-not practical IMO.

      As far as the whole pex vs copper debate, I feel they both have their use.

      If your in a bad nieghborhood, if you have aggressive water, use pex.

      If you have decent water quality, in a decent neighborhood, use copper.

      The primary reason I favor copper is it's proven. I frequently see L copper 80-100 years old. Pex has only been used in my area for about 10-12 years, with very little problems when properly installed. So far I'm impressed with pex, but the jury is still out IMO.


      It's all good plumbing school-we're all just trying to make a living and learn from each other.
      Last edited by 420paul; 03-14-2010, 10:09 AM.

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      • #33
        Re: replace copper with pex?

        Does anyone have any water tests from the tap proving these anti-bacterial/microbial benefits of copper?

        Otherwise it's just theoretical. Right?

        J.C.

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        • #34
          Re: replace copper with pex?

          Originally posted by Roy Eric View Post
          Copper= bactericidal= kills bacteria.
          I understand copper piping is a bacteriostat which means it doesn't kill bacteria per se, but it doesn't allow bacteria to reproduce.
          Time flies like an arrow.

          Fruit flies like a banana.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: replace copper with pex?

            Originally posted by 420paul View Post
            In my experience, pex seems to be quieter than copper.
            100% agree.

            Originally posted by 420paul View Post
            I would have to respectfully disagree about undersized waterpiping being a likely cause for a temperature spike in a tub/shower valve.
            Think about this while you read what you wrote next.

            Originally posted by 420paul View Post
            If you considerably over sized your piping with a non balanced valve, then you probably wouldn't notice a spike-not practical IMO.
            You just contradicted your above statement. Clearly you realize pipe sizing is relevent to temperature changes. You don't have to considerably oversize your pipe to eliminate delta T's, just correctly size it.

            Originally posted by 420paul View Post
            I frequently see L copper 80-100 years old.
            Heck, I didn't know they made copper pipe 100 years ago. I thought it was brass back then.


            Originally posted by 420paul View Post
            It's all good plumbing school-we're all just trying to make a living and learn from each other.
            100% agree.
            Time flies like an arrow.

            Fruit flies like a banana.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: replace copper with pex?

              Sure, you could replace copper with pex. You could also replace your concrete foundation with Lego blocks, your shingle roof with Visqueen, and your computer with a nice Playskool calculator.

              Okay, that's kinda simplistic. I had an inspector ask me last fall why I piped a house with copper. Ex-squeeze-me? What do you mean, sir? "Everybody uses pex, now. Cheaper, faster, better." Not to me, it isn't. I walk through that basement and see the long, straight runs of copper, and it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Have I lost competitve bid jobs because I install copper? Sure have. Will I install pex? Sure, if that's what's spec'd, or if there's some GREAT reason to do so, as at my own home when I added a slab addition with radiant. But in THIS case, where there is good copper, already installed? Harrumph! (Have I mentioned I'm an old, tired, kinda grumpy old dude?)

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: replace copper with pex?

                Originally posted by Western Reserve View Post
                Sure, you could replace copper with pex. You could also replace your concrete foundation with Lego blocks, your shingle roof with Visqueen, and your computer with a nice Playskool calculator.

                Okay, that's kinda simplistic. I had an inspector ask me last fall why I piped a house with copper. Ex-squeeze-me? What do you mean, sir? "Everybody uses pex, now. Cheaper, faster, better." Not to me, it isn't. I walk through that basement and see the long, straight runs of copper, and it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. Have I lost competitve bid jobs because I install copper? Sure have. Will I install pex? Sure, if that's what's spec'd, or if there's some GREAT reason to do so, as at my own home when I added a slab addition with radiant. But in THIS case, where there is good copper, already installed? Harrumph! (Have I mentioned I'm an old, tired, kinda grumpy old dude?)
                LOL - GREAT response , I loved the Lego reference
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                • #38
                  Re: replace copper with pex?

                  instead of starting a new thread i will post my next question here...

                  are the rubber couplings with stainless steel clamps suitable for direct burial?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: replace copper with pex?

                    Geno-

                    Copper piping was first used in the U.S. in the 1920's, which would make my 80-100 year old educated guess right on. I do still see 100+ year old brass piping still working fine, pretty amazing. I hear there's a fair amount of lead in that old brass piping though. We have alot of old victorian homes and a few historic districs here. Some interesting plumbing in these homes as you can imagine. I see alot of 100+ year old cast iron drain pipe as well. We are fortunate to have excellent water quality here.

                    If you read carefully what I wrote, you wont find a contradiction. Maybe you misunderstood me, perhaps I could have chose my words a little more carefully. We can leave it at that.


                    Gopher, yes a mission clamp will work underground, however it may not be to your local code.
                    Last edited by 420paul; 03-15-2010, 08:24 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Re: replace copper with pex?

                      ok. im not sure if its code or not, i emailed my inspector, waiting for a reply. If its not, i dont think there is any other way to install the 4" wye. its impossible to move the pipe sideways to make room.
                      the other pic is where im installing a shower. the drain is going to the old toilet drain. let me know if i did anything ovisely wrong before i glue up the pipe.
                      Attached Files

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                      • #41
                        Re: replace copper with pex?

                        You need a combination instead of a Tee and Mission Type bands plus a test on the system.

                        I don't care if it's harder!

                        J.C.

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                        • #42
                          Re: replace copper with pex?

                          JC, i found the bands your talkin about, but not 100 sure on the fitting i should be using. Can you post a link or a pic please?

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                          • #43
                            Re: replace copper with pex?

                            nevermind i see that you were talking about the 2", i though you were talkin about the 4" tee. thanks again

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