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  • Bad ABS or bad glue?

    I work for a property management group and at one of the properties we are running into broken ABS lines. The ABS drain from the upstairs tub is breaking after the P-trap and where it goes into the wall. We have repaired 3 so far and have 86 units all with the same design. These are breaking flush with fitting. Any ideas? Most are divided between the glue and bad mix on the pipe when it was made. I think we have a lot of work ahead.

    Rich

  • #2
    Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

    rich, it sounds like you have the "non virgin abs resin" defect that affected 6 manufactures a number of years back.

    it's the material that's an issue and there is a class action law suit with money still in the kitty

    goggle "non virgin abs resin class action lawsuit" for help with this subject.

    you can also read what we have to say on this forum by using the search feature and entering in that phrase.

    rick.
    phoebe it is

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    • #3
      Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

      Actually it was 5-manufactures.

      http://www.abspipes.com/id.html



      Mark
      Attached Files
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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      • #4
        Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

        The resin was mine and my wife's thought. My wife worked for Certainteed ( was Apache ) and J/M Pipe, ( was Johns/Manville till the asbestos lawsuits ), running extruders and Q/C for Kroy Industries in Kansas. I will definitely check out Googling that lawsuit. I am figuring we will eventually have to repair all of those drains. Like that wasn't bad enough, they all have Sterling shower valves. Thanks for the info from all of you. My wife said non-virgin= regrind.
        Last edited by mouse53; 04-06-2010, 08:47 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

          Originally posted by mouse53 View Post
          The resin was mine and my wife's thought. My wife worked for Certainteed ( was Apache ) and J/M Pipe, ( was Johns/Manville till the asbestos lawsuits ), running extruders and Q/C for Kroy Industries in Kansas. I will definitely check out Googling that lawsuit. I am figuring we will eventually have to repair all of those drains. Like that wasn't bad enough, they all have Sterling shower valves. Thanks for the info from all of you. My wife said non-virgin= regrind.
          You don't need to Google it I posted the link in my post. Rather than non-virgin regrind the bad ABS had non ABS regrind.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

            Mark, thanks for all the info and the link. I checked a section of pipe in my building, ( I live on site and its a long story ) and found it to be manufactured by Spartan. I have personally replaced the damaged pipe in another unit with the identical problems as specified in the lawsuit. Is there a chance the contractor used different suppliers, or did I find a pipe company that got missed? I really don't know who supplied ABS in those years, might have been P.E.Ohare or another that is long gone. I'm thinking I will have to check each building to see if we have the affected pipe.

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            • #7
              Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

              One of the problems is sometimes identifying the bad pipe because it is mixed. I had a large 400+ unit condo project in Agoura where only the 2" pipe was bad. It was still a lot of work but not nearly as bad as if it was all pipe 1 1/2 through 4".

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

                Thanks again Mark. I will continue to look for the name on the pipe. I think ours is going to be 1 1/2", but finding a piece with the name on it is going to be fun. I can't just go randomly cutting holes. I need to get some hard evidence to show my company. So far I can go in the attic space of each unit. We will see.

                Rich

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                • #9
                  Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

                  Don't know if anyone is monitoring this post, but I did manage to locate the name on some of the ABS pipe. It seems that the 1 1/2" pipe is Centaur. The other sizes are Spartan and have not been a problem. I did take pictures showing the manufacture name and date. Now I will have to get pics of the actual damage as we find it.

                  I seem to remember there being a company set up with the lawsuit to do the repairs if you could prove you had the bad ABS pipe. I will have to verify that as there are those that believe it would not be cost effective to pursue any action on this. I am staying on this as I don't think pipes just break, there has to be a reason. I have seen abs split in a wall but not break off flush till now.

                  We have another property that is experiencing the 3" fittings just above the bottom plate cracking about 3/4" of the way around the flange at 1" up from the bottom. These are located behind the bottom floor toilet in the wall where they pick up the lav and w/c drains. Don't know why this is happening---Yet. We didn't know this was the problem until a couple moved in and the wife liked to take baths. Every time she took a bath, when she let the water out, it would get the floor wet by the downstairs w/c. I figure the people who occupied the place before must have taken showers and there wasn't that much water going into the drain from the top floor.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

                    I've always been happy that ABS never got a foot hold here in the east. What little of it we run into I have not been impressed with.
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

                      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                      I've always been happy that ABS never got a foot hold here in the east. What little of it we run into I have not been impressed with.
                      A couple of manufacturers were sold bad material 25-years ago which led to some bad pipe. That could happen to any material including PVC.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

                        I cringe every time I run into ABS in our area. The pipes seems very brittle compared to PVC. Every time I rod a 3" ABS stack it ends up shattering if I am not to careful about building up torque.

                        I am lucky its only a few subdivisions in our area that have used it.
                        Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                        Ron's Facebook
                        A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                        Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                        Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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                        • #13
                          Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

                          Yea, 30 years or so ago a few supply houses tried peddling it out here but it quickly died. It's a regional preference kind of like guys that like worm drive skill saws and those that like sidewinders. Problem we have with it is that there is so little of it around that every time we run across it we have to use either mechanical coupling or a male/female to transition to PVC. The do-all glue ain't code compliant here.
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            Yea, 30 years or so ago a few supply houses tried peddling it out here but it quickly died. It's a regional preference kind of like guys that like worm drive skill saws and those that like sidewinders. Problem we have with it is that there is so little of it around that every time we run across it we have to use either mechanical coupling or a male/female to transition to PVC. The do-all glue ain't code compliant here.
                            Same here, have to use male and female adapters or a a shielded coupling as well.
                            Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                            Ron's Facebook
                            A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                            Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                            Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bad ABS or bad glue?


                              The main thing to remember is " DO NOT "

                              glue back to the pipe or it will just happen

                              again, use a pl x pl mission or fernco

                              coupling, when reconnecting to existing pipe
                              JERRYMAC
                              E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
                              CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
                              FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                              SINCE JAN. 1989

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