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Anbody know about installing a submersable pump in a lake?

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  • Anbody know about installing a submersable pump in a lake?

    I have a project where I have to change a submersable pump in a lake, However it would be my first time, We have removed the old pump and stand from the lake. The electric cable broke off at the pump during this process as it goes through a tree underwater. The pump was fitted in some 4 inch pvc with a fitting which the pump pipe goes through, it looks like you would tighten the bolts, squeezing a rubber gasket so as to keep the pump centered in the pipe, I do not know what this fitting is called and where I would purchase one from? Also I know I have water in the metal conduit which protects the electric calbles, I m thinking once the diver brings back the cable I could vacuum out from the end and suck out any water? would that be a problem? The pipe work was a mixture off sch 40 pvc and series75 black water service pipe, Im thinking the water service pipe would be the way to go, may be a series 160 or 200 series? any idea would be very much appriciated. Thanks

  • #2
    bp

    try www.do-it-yourself-pumps.com , it's a site by dean bennett supply. breid.....................

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    • #3
      Re: Anbody know about installing a submersable pump in a lake?

      Originally posted by British Plumber View Post
      I have a project where I have to change a submersable pump in a lake, However it would be my first time, We have removed the old pump and stand from the lake. The electric cable broke off at the pump during this process as it goes through a tree underwater. The pump was fitted in some 4 inch pvc with a fitting which the pump pipe goes through, it looks like you would tighten the bolts, squeezing a rubber gasket so as to keep the pump centered in the pipe, I do not know what this fitting is called and where I would purchase one from? Also I know I have water in the metal conduit which protects the electric calbles, I m thinking once the diver brings back the cable I could vacuum out from the end and suck out any water? would that be a problem? The pipe work was a mixture off sch 40 pvc and series75 black water service pipe, Im thinking the water service pipe would be the way to go, may be a series 160 or 200 series? any idea would be very much appriciated. Thanks
      That's just a single pipe well seal. Sometimes a pump is placed in a short section of PVC or a Slitted PVC section with the well seal then submerged.

      Campbell makes many seals & products.

      http://www.campbellmfg.com/default.htm

      The power can be waterproofed/heat shrunk with no conduit in a well. But you're talking about a lake and I don't know what the electrical code would require for safety. Better check even if the current system has been "working" without problem.

      160PSI Black Polyethylene Pipe will be fine for many applications. One thing to consider is how the system is stabilized. The pump can generate torque when firing that may need a different way to stabilize it in a lake as opposed to a drilled well.

      Sounds like well seal, heat shrink & check with electrician, 160PSI/PE Pipe, and making sure things are stable.

      Take a pic of it working!

      Good luck.

      J.C.

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      • #4
        Re: Anbody know about installing a submersable pump in a lake?

        My friend used a standard well pump mounted on a tripod that stands upright on the bottom of the lake. He used standard well pump seals and wiring. Discharge pipe is 1" poly black tubing. Been running it that way for years.

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        • #5
          Re: Anybody know about installing a submersible pump in a lake?

          The black item your referring too, may be what's called a torque arrester that is installed on the water pipe just above the pump head and it is expanded to the size of the well casing and clamped to pipe. This is done to center the pump in the pipe and keep it from banging against the wall when it starts and operates.

          What I have done/seen done is on a 4" submersible well pump, is construct what looks like a 4-legged spider out of 4" and 6" PVC, The 6" is the tube for the pump and 4- 6x4 Dbl TY's are used to make the legs, to keep pump off of the lake bottom. The 4" legs, turned down with 90's, can be filled with gravel and capped, or filled with concrete for more permanent to keep it on the bottom and prevent it from rolling over. The bottom legs are shorter, since 4" well pumps require a minimum of a 45 degree operating level, for the thrust bearing on the motor.

          Where the pump head exits the 6" PVC on top, use a 6x4 Fernco, to clamp the pump inside the 6" PVC while sealing the top all at once. Since 4" pumps require water movement for cooling across the motor end, the water will now enter the 6" PVC bottom. Here, depending on depth and lake conditions, you could leave open, cut slats in the 6" PVC side with a radial saw, or construct a inlet screen.

          160# IPS black poly well pipe will work best for you. Regarding the electric, use pump wire which is designed for submersion with heat shrink splices. It is best to put the wires inside flexible liquid seal-tite conduit, spicing at a 4x4 box on shore and securing to the poly pipe out to the pump. The seal-tite will give your wire the protection it needs out in the water.

          Personally, I like the Grundfos 3" pumps, constant pressure (SQE series) which will allow you to use 4" PVC as the sleeve, draws less amps, gives constant pressure and only requires a 2 gal well tank. These also don't require an upright angle for the motor, thus can operate laying flat.
          Last edited by Lee H; 04-12-2010, 08:38 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: Anbody know about installing a submersable pump in a lake?

            Personally, I like the Grundfos 3" pumps, constant pressure (SQE series) which will allow you to use 4" PVC as the sleeve, draws less amps, gives constant pressure and only requires a 2 gal well tank. These also don't require an upright angle for the motor, thus can operate laying flat.
            Three inch submersibles are double the cost of a four inch sub
            They also cost two to three times the price of a four inch sub. And the four inch pumps can lay flat also.

            Don't worry about the flow sleeve that was around the pump. Throw it away. Torque arrestors don't even enter into this type of installation (or any other for that matter) so you don't have to worry about them.

            Just secure the pump so it isn't sucking mud off the bottom of the lake and it will need to be kept away from things such as leaves and minnows that can plug the intake screen easily. This is how I put one in a lake: http://www.pumpsandtanks.com/Helpful...n_strainer.htm
            The screen is not shown.

            If you use a two wire motor again, the torque won't be that bad. The motor and pump can be vertical, horizontal or any degree in between.
            Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

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            • #7
              Re: Anybody know about installing a submersible pump in a lake?

              4" motors require .25 GPM across motor for proper cooling, thus the flow sleeve can not be avoided, but hey that's what Franklin motors says, the largest well pump motor manufacturer, Speedbump may know more than the manufacturer.

              Regarding the 3" constant pressure variable speeds, not only do they reduce installation item and accessory cost, they draw about 75% less current thus use less energy than a comparable performance 4", well worth the added cost of system. That along with no measurable pressure changes, less space required, easy pressure changes can be made, built-in lightening protection, lighter weight.........
              Last edited by Lee H; 04-12-2010, 03:09 PM. Reason: Wrote marathon (hvac) meant Franklin

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              • #8
                Re: Anbody know about installing a submersable pump in a lake?

                4" motors require .25 GPM across motor for proper cooling, thus the flow sleeve can not be avoided, but hey that's what Marathon motors says, the largest well pump motor manufacturer, Speedbump may know more than the manufacturer.
                I don't want to get into a contest here, but when did Marathon ever build a submersible pump motor?

                I wouldn't want a customer spending three times more for a pump that isn't going to help them in any way. British Plumber didn't mention how the pump was going to be used. I assumed it was used for irrigation since the water is coming from a lake. A simple timer could power the pump without a tank and switch so constant pressure isn't an issue. A sub motor in a lake will cool just fine without a flow sleeve. I have done it many times, even here in Florida ponds with no cooling issues. Our pond water gets into the 90's in the summer months.

                A flow sleeve isn't going to cool the water in a lake since the water moves around. A motor warming up will cause water being warmed to rise bringing the cooler water up around itself.

                The Poly Pipe would be a good choice. No couplings to worry about and it can take a lot of abuse. As for electrical code, I would check that. I don't pretend to know what the inspectors would be looking for on an underwater install.
                Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

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                • #9
                  Re: Anbody know about installing a submersable pump in a lake?

                  It is very common to pull domestic water from a lake for potable use, typically if the lake is deep enough.

                  My suggestion was just that, to look at the 3" constant pressure. Why be a another plumber afraid to make a good margin or living concerned over what a unseen owner or installer may really want or wish to pay. Argue what you wish about flow sleeves as Franklin motors says one is required. The inlet is between motor and pump, if water is not drawn across the motor it will get warm, causing premature wear and diminished life
                  Last edited by Lee H; 04-12-2010, 09:53 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Anbody know about installing a submersable pump in a lake?

                    Thanks Guys for the advise, very helpfull !!!

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