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Is this a PRV?

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  • #16
    Re: Is this a PRV?

    Re: The picture shown by MoJournyman- -I have installed hudreds, if not thousands, of these in the three industrial plants I have worked in. These were used to remove any small particulates (as Mo said also) in supposedly clean, city water going to aftercoolers on hydraulic systems and machinery which we could not afford to have small particulates build up and stop production. Some of you are familiar with what happens when a municipality works on a main water line and shakes all that gritty stuff loose and it gets into the water system. Clean out all the faucet aerators within two square miles or so. David

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Is this a PRV?

      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
      It really does just look like the check on a meter yoke/setter with an electronic reader. Shouldn't be affecting pressures. You can even straight line in the box to confirm this. But I'm not sure you should be messing with it.

      Call the city.


      No resolution. Then call a plumber.


      Good luck.

      J.C.

      What J.C. said!!!

      You (the Locksmith) are messing with something that could prove very costly to you (not the customer) and which obviously is outside the limits of your experience and trade.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Is this a PRV?

        When the situation calls for a professional, I'll call one. Until then, I'll make my own misteaks and learn from them, I suppose.

        Right now, nothing is on fire, there is no emergency, and I'm in an exploratory phase.

        This thing does not look like a PRV. I've been in the crawl space, and the supply line does not enter there. There is an attached 3-car garage, where the water heater & furnace are elevated. Unfortunately, a previous owner to my friend had built a room around the furnace & water heater, and drywalled in the plumbing. No crawl space under this room built above the original parking stall. No idea what they drywalled over.

        Neighbor says he had a PRV and had it removed when the supply pressure went down and the need for it went away and it failed. I do not find a PRV, but it could be in one of those now-inaccessible areas.

        I am not going to pay a plumber to cut a crawlspace access or rip out drywall -- that kind of demolition does not require a plumber's expertise.

        Kindly do not consider that, because I list "Locksmith" as my current profession, that I am not qualified to perform tests & repairs in other fields -- Locksmithing is my sixth career.

        I appreciate all the input so far. I assume that when I get several professionals, who work with this stuff every day, say that the item in the picture on Page 1 does not look like a PRV, that it isn't. 'Nuf said. I've had folks suggest that it's a strainer & a check, but while I've asked (like) three times if anyone has seen a strainer or a check with a right-angle discharge, nobody has piped up and confirmed that such a critter is common. I've not found one online that does, but hell, I'm a Locksmith; there's lots of stuff I haven't seen. So I ask.

        In any event, I need to make certain that sufficient flow & pressure exists at the meter; no point in chasing a problem of low flow in the house when the problem may be in the street. Before I begin cutting out exploratory sections of floor & drywall (or buying a camera system and going that route -- a definite possibility if my existing borescope won't suffice), it looks best to disconnect that strainer (or check) and do my flow & pressure test there. If that passes, then I move on.

        Thanks for your input so far
        Last edited by asavage; 04-25-2010, 11:39 PM.
        Regards,
        Al S.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Is this a PRV?

          Originally posted by asavage View Post
          When the situation calls for a professional, I'll call one. Until then, I'll make my own misteaks and learn from them, I suppose.

          Right now, nothing is on fire, there is no emergency, and I'm in an exploratory phase.

          This thing does not look like a PRV. I've been in the crawl space, and the supply line does not enter there. There is an attached 3-car garage, where the water heater & furnace are elevated. Unfortunately, a previous owner to my friend had built a room around the furnace & water heater, and drywalled in the plumbing. No crawl space under this room built above the original parking stall. No idea what they drywalled over.

          Neighbor says he had a PRV and had it removed when the supply pressure went down and the need for it went away and it failed. I do not find a PRV, but it could be in one of those now-inaccessible areas.

          I am not going to pay a plumber to cut a crawlspace access or rip out drywall -- that kind of demolition does not require a plumber's expertise.

          Kindly do not consider that, because I list "Locksmith" as my current profession, that I am not qualified to perform tests & repairs in other fields -- Locksmithing is my sixth career.

          I appreciate all the input so far. I assume that when I get several professionals, who work with this stuff every day, say that the item in the picture on Page 1 does not look like a PRV, that it isn't. 'Nuf said. I've had folks suggest that it's a strainer & a check, but while I've asked (like) three times if anyone has seen a strainer or a check with a right-angle discharge, nobody has piped up and confirmed that such a critter is common. I've not found one online that does, but hell, I'm a Locksmith; there's lots of stuff I haven't seen. So I ask.

          In any event, I need to make certain that sufficient flow & pressure exists at the meter; no point in chasing a problem of low flow in the house when the problem may be in the street. Before I begin cutting out exploratory sections of floor & drywall (or buying a camera system and going that route -- a definite possibility if my existing borescope won't suffice), it looks best to disconnect that strainer (or check) and do my flow & pressure test there. If that passes, then I move on.

          Thanks for your input so far
          Yes there are checks with side discharges. If you have a look at this picture just above the yellow handled Propress ball valves is a duel check with a side vent/discharge.



          But what you have pictured there is a Wye pattern swing check, what you are mistaking as a side discharge is the screw that gives you access to the hinge pin for the flapper. It does resemble a strainer hence a few commenting it is a strainer. But I assure you it is a Wye pattern swing check.

          Attached Files
          Last edited by SewerRatz; 04-26-2010, 12:02 AM.
          Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
          A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
          Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
          Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Is this a PRV?

            [QUOTE=asavage;294128]When the situation calls for a professional, I'll call one. Until then, I'll make my own misteaks and learn from them, I suppose.

            Right now, nothing is on fire, there is no emergency, and I'm in an exploratory phase.

            This thing does not look like a PRV. I've been in the crawl space, and the supply line does not enter there. There is an attached 3-car garage, where the water heater & furnace are elevated. Unfortunately, a previous owner to my friend had built a room around the furnace & water heater, and drywalled in the plumbing. No crawl space under this room built above the original parking stall. No idea what they drywalled over.

            Neighbor says he had a PRV and had it removed when the supply pressure went down and the need for it went away and it failed. I do not find a PRV, but it could be in one of those now-inaccessible areas.

            I am not going to pay a plumber to cut a crawlspace access or rip out drywall -- that kind of demolition does not require a plumber's expertise.

            Kindly do not consider that, because I list "Locksmith" as my current profession, that I am not qualified to perform tests & repairs in other fields -- Locksmithing is my sixth career.

            I appreciate all the input so far. I assume that when I get several professionals, who work with this stuff every day, say that the item in the picture on Page 1 does not look like a PRV, that it isn't. 'Nuf said. I've had folks suggest that it's a strainer & a check, but while I've asked (like) three times if anyone has seen a strainer or a check with a right-angle discharge, nobody has piped up and confirmed that such a critter is common. I've not found one online that does, but hell, I'm a Locksmith; there's lots of stuff I haven't seen. So I ask.

            In any event, I need to make certain that sufficient flow & pressure exists at the meter; no point in chasing a problem of low flow in the house when the problem may be in the street. Before I begin cutting out exploratory sections of floor & drywall (or buying a camera system and going that route -- a definite possibility if my existing borescope won't suffice), it looks best to disconnect that strainer (or check) and do my flow & pressure test there. If that passes, then I move on.

            Thanks for your input so far [/QUOTE Good luck, I have a feeling You'll figure it out.
            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Is this a PRV?

              Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
              But I assure you it is a Wye pattern swing check.

              This is what I'm looking at in the meter box:


              (click on any image for much larger pic)


              It's not a great pair of pics, but while there is a hex nut at the back, there's nothing pipe-like back there. Water comes from the meter, and water discharges downward at 90° from that dingus. Not at a 45° angle. Not out the back.

              Mo posted a pic of a strainer: water moves through that in a straight line.

              You posted a pic of a swing-check: water moves through that in a straight line.

              Neither resembles what I see in the meter box, where water exits straight down.

              Thanks, all.
              Last edited by asavage; 04-26-2010, 12:47 PM.
              Regards,
              Al S.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Is this a PRV?

                I'm pretty sure I know what I'm looking at. The local municipality will typically check the meter assembly, the pressure at the meter, and the flow rate from it for NOTHING. And tell the homeowner what they are.

                If it's out of spec. they will make the necessary changes.

                And that is not a PRV.

                J.C.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Is this a PRV?

                  Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                  The local municipality will typically check the meter assembly, the pressure at the meter, and the flow rate from it for NOTHING. And tell the homeowner what they are.
                  Thanks for that.
                  I've just emailed the City of Duvall's Public Utilities Dept., requesting that info, and inquiring if they will perform a flow & pressure test (at any cost). Good tip, Thanks.
                  Regards,
                  Al S.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Is this a PRV?

                    News:

                    About 90 minutes after I emailed City of Duvall, I received a phone call from James, a City of Duvall Public Works fellow. He was standing at my friend's house, had already tested water pressure at the nearby hydrant: 66 PSI. He has been with this Dept. for a while and is familiar with the tract homes in the area. He said he tested 41 PSI at the front hose bib (same as my test of the rear). I gave him permission to access the backyard hose bib, and he called me back a few minutes later: with a gauge on one bib and the other open, pressure dropped 5 PSI and did not recover: bad PRV.

                    He says this is a very common problem -- the advantage of having the job he does and staying in one area. He said he was amused to get a call with the pressure "only" 41 PSI. Usually, by the time he gets a call, pressure is under 10!

                    He was also able to confirm that most of the homes he's been in in this development, have the PRV in the wall adjacent to the water heater: now I know to look there first.
                    Regards,
                    Al S.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Is this a PRV?

                      Originally posted by asavage View Post
                      news:

                      About 90 minutes after i emailed city of duvall, i received a phone call from james, a city of duvall public works fellow. He was standing at my friend's house, had already tested water pressure at the nearby hydrant: 66 psi. He has been with this dept. For a while and is familiar with the tract homes in the area. He said he tested 41 psi at the front hose bib (same as my test of the rear). I gave him permission to access the backyard hose bib, and he called me back a few minutes later: With a gauge on one bib and the other open, pressure dropped 5 psi and did not recover: Bad prv.

                      He says this is a very common problem -- the advantage of having the job he does and staying in one area. He said he was amused to get a call with the pressure "only" 41 psi. Usually, by the time he gets a call, pressure is under 10!

                      He was also able to confirm that most of the homes he's been in in this development, have the prv in the wall adjacent to the water heater: Now i know to look there first.
                      well done !
                      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Is this a PRV?

                        I do seem to remember that "NIBCO" did make in-line strainers which were not in a 45º configuration, they were in a 90º configuration. My years of experience has taught me that (generally) swing check valves have a hex-shaped cap on them, and in-line strainers have a square-shaped cap on them. I'd say 75%-85% of the "maintenance" guys I worked with always used a pipe wrench to remove the cap on a strainer. I keep going back to the original pictures posted and with my old eyes and bifocals I just cannot tell if the cap has a square or a hex on it. I don't see the hex-shaped cap on the side for the swing pin access either, so- -is it a check valve or not? It does appear to me to be a strainer, but why there? My 2¢ worth, David

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Is this a PRV?

                          Originally posted by Thurman View Post
                          . . . (generally) swing check valves have a hex-shaped cap on them, and in-line strainers have a square-shaped cap on them.
                          The dohickey pictured has a hex cap on the end opposite the meter.

                          It's likely a check, I'm thinking. I'm not planning on digging it up; my current search is for the PRV in the wall behind the water heater. We cut out the drywall today, no PRV down to the footer 2x4.

                          This is a tract home, and there are other homes in the tract that have an identical floor plan. Yesterday, we walked to a house in the neighborhood that is an identical floor plan, asked to see their garage/water heater layout, one where a remodel hasn't buried the original plumbing, and what I saw in that home is that the furnace & water heater sit on a platform about 8" off the slab. The wood platform is about 3' x 10', and in this other home, it's skirted, so one cannot see under it. No piping is visible along the walls leading toward the meter, and most of the garage slab/foundation is visible.

                          I'm thinking that the water supply enters the garage under this platform.

                          We have no available time to do any more exploring for the next two weeks, and as it's not an emergency, it'll sit until then.
                          Regards,
                          Al S.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Do you have a regulator installed?

                            This would be located at the extenal shutoff valve, right outside the home. If yes, then the landscape H20 is also being reduced. Many folks have their landscape H20 bypassing the regulator. With up to 20 sprinklers running at the same time, sometimes there is just not enough pressure. In the home, with just 1,2 or 3 fixtures running simultaneously you might not be effected. Without seeing it, obviously it's hard to be certain.

                            About the valve in the pictue, it almost has to be some sort of backflow device or a transition coupling (maybe copper to plastic, poly or something else). Hard to tell by the picture itself.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Is this a PRV?

                              All done except hiding the evidence . . .

                              Looking for the PRV, it is not at the meter and not in the wall behind the water heater, nor under the platform in the garage upon which the water heater sits.

                              It's in the crawl space.

                              I know, I know, I can hear you guys groaning already. To be fair, this is a very looong home, and the provided crawl space access is in the walk-in closet off the master bedroom -- IOW, at the extreme other end of the house from the garage, water heater, and supply line -- and the house has white carpeting [rolleyes]. The crawl space has good vertical clearance at about 3', but the forced-air ductwork has return ducts the prevent anyone from actually being able to get to the supply line.

                              I had reconnoitered the crawlspace in search of the PRV, but could not see behind the one section of return ductwork behind which it was hidden.

                              I created a new crawlspace access next to the water heater, and found the PRV within 10' of it.

                              [click on any image for larger]

                              Cutting out the sheet metal floor covering, using a Dremel. Skil-saw & chisel to create the hatch.




                              The supply line & PRV are actually about 12' from the hatch I cut, and around a corner, involving a very tight squeeze for me between the foundation and a support for a joist.




                              Preparing the old pipe for the PRV bypass.



                              Thorny: the supply line is wrapped in duct tape and has a poor fit through the foundation. I added 3/4" to my bypass to try to gain some clearance between the supply line and the foundation concrete, but I'm not sure if it made much difference. I wanted to straighten it out more, but that would have involved removing the 90°/45° combo and replacing it, a task I was not up for that day.



                              The strainer on the inlet of the PRV is fairly occluded, but the regulator itself wasn't regulating anyway . . .



                              What's left to do is to hide all evidence: repair the drywall behind the water heater, make a real access cover, etc.

                              The water pressure at the hose bib is now over 60 PSI, and other than the water heater plastic drain valve leaking (I did exercise it two months ago), everything works better.

                              Thanks, all, for your help with this.
                              Regards,
                              Al S.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Is this a PRV?

                                That's great glad you fixed it....BUTTT what was the other pic of??? Do us all a favor call your county/city guy back, email him a pic of it and ask him what it is....maybe he knows???

                                Comment

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