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Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

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  • #16
    Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

    Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
    I will come over with my Bosch Brute, and fix that ABS problem, and bring my 4" chain knocker and make that cast iron look like brand new when I am done.

    btw I am not married, and my daughter is 19 and ready to move out.

    SewerRatz, you don't mess around. I like your style!


    • #17
      Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
      To post a visitor message, go to Plumber Rick's profile and you will see a text box to leave a visitor message. Your other option would be to send me a PM and I will forward it to Rick as the moderator.


      BTW: Please excuse the visitor messages my 9-year old grand daughter left for Rick.
      Mark, can We all do that ? Rick has a new secretary!
      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .


      • #18
        Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

        Wow that is a lot of sludge. Was the line jetted from a downstream point going up stream to draw anything out? does not look like it was, that would have removed much of the debris. And that ABS pipe is Hackity hack!



        • #19
          Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

          Understanding engineers...

          Understanding Engineers – One
          Two engineering students were walking across a university campus when one said, "Where did you get such a great bike?"
          The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday, minding my own business, when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike, threw it to the ground, took off all her clothes and said, "Take what you want."
          The first engineer nodded approvingly and said, "Good choice; the clothes probably wouldn't have fit you anyway."

          Understanding Engineers – Two
          To the optimist, the glass is half-full.
          To the pessimist, the glass is half-empty.
          To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

          Understanding Engineers – Three
          A priest, a doctor, and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers.
          The engineer fumed, "What's with those guys? We must have been waiting for fifteen minutes!"
          The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but I've never seen such inept golf!"
          The priest said, "Here comes the green-keeper. Let's have a word with him."
          He said, "Hello George, what's wrong with that group ahead of us? They're rather slow, aren't they?"
          The green-keeper replied, "Oh, yes. That's a group of blind firemen. They lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."
          The group fell silent for a moment.
          The priest said, "That's so sad. I think I will say a special prayer for them tonight."
          The doctor said, "Good idea. I'm going to contact my ophthalmologist colleague and see if there's anything he can do for them."
          The engineer said, "Why can't they play at night?"

          Understanding Engineers – Four
          What is the difference between mechanical engineers and civil engineers?
          Mechanical engineers build weapons. Civil engineers build targets.

          Understanding Engineers – Five
          The graduate with a science degree asks, "Why does it work?"
          The graduate with an engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"
          The graduate with an accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"
          The graduate with an arts degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?"

          Understanding Engineers – Six
          Three engineering students were gathered together discussing who must have designed the human body.
          One said, "It was a mechanical engineer. Just look at all the joints."
          Another said, "No, it was an electrical engineer. The nervous system has many thousands of electrical connections."
          The last one said, "No, actually it had to have been a civil engineer. Who else would run a toxic waste pipeline through a recreational area?"

          Understanding Engineers – Seven
          Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
          Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.

          Understanding Engineers – Eight
          An engineer was crossing a road one day, when a frog called out to him and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess."
          He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket.
          The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a princess, I'll stay with you for one week and do ANYTHING you want."
          Again, the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back into his pocket.
          Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? I've told you I'm a beautiful princess and that I'll stay with you for one week and do anything you want. Why won't you kiss me?"
          The engineer said, "Look, I'm an engineer. I don't have time for a girlfriend, but a talking frog, now that's cool."


          • #20
            Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

            Below is a video of my pipes as of yesterday. I had the plumber come back out and try to flush more of the sediment down. He did move it farther out and it does look like there is less now.
            The awful saddle coming in must be dealt with. I’m guessing I’ll have to dig that one out.

            My question though is how do the actual cast iron pipes look? They don’t look good to me, but what do I know.

            Should I dig up my house and replace it all? Do they look rotted to you guys?

            Thanks for your opinions on this, I appreciate it.



            • #21
              Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

              The cast iron pipe look fine to me. There is no cracks or breaks in the pipe. Just need to fix the section with the ABS pipe.

              Did I mention I am single?
              Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
              Ron's Facebook
              A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
              Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
              Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing


              • #22
                Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

                I'm not adding anything new that anyone else hasn't said, but I thought I might make things more clear for you by restating the bits and pieces more clearly in one place.

                Your line is not broken form anything visible here, and is in typical shape for older cast iron.

                The 'sludge' or 'sand' is corrosion. It was once adhered to the inside wall of the pipe, and was knocked loose during the snaking and jetting. The 'crater' where you thought the pipe might have been cracked is an area where the some of the corrosion was removed and some stayed stuck to the pipe wall. The crater or crack you see in that area is the edge of the corrosion layer still stuck to the wall with solid smooth pipe will visible outside of the corrosion layer.

                A good cleaning with a chain knocker to remove the rest of the corrosion from the walls followed by a good jetting to flush the debris out will return the pipe to nearly 'as new' condition. You may not need to have this done, as I see many lines in ths condition that work just fine. The rough surface from the corrosion will tend to catch tp and other debris and may cause problems. Tampons in particular wil tend to clog it up.

                Jetting to remove the loose debris will be most effective if it can be done by entering the system from downstream and working up to the problem area. Most of the jetting action pulls debris back to the point where you've entered the system, so if it can be done from below it flushes out better. It can be done from above, but it takes longer, and sometimes you must pull the debris up to where you can vac it out.

                The bit of abs protruding into the line is not something you'd want to see. It could be ground off w/o digging it up. It could be dug up and fixed properly, wich would also stop any roots from growing back in there. Or, you could just wait to see what happens as it's likely been there for some time w/o causing problems until now, and appers to be on the top of the pipe where it is least likely to cause problems.

                The proper, most maintenance free, greatest peace of mind, and most expensive fix is to
                - expose the connection with the abs and repair it properly
                - remove the corrosion layer in the iron
                - flush out all the loose rust debris afterward
                - camera to make sure it's all good
                - repeat until it is

                The roll the dice solution is to be aware of it, go easy on it in terms of what you flush, start putting some $ aside for if and when it occurs again, and apply rootx annually to prevent roots form returning to the problem area.

                There are middle courses. Grinding out the protruding abs and cleaning out the corrosion and rootxing anually might be the most cost effective option, as it saves the expense and mess of cutting concrete and digging.

                If I were you, I'd be balancing the hassle, expense, and potential damage due to another backup against the expense of doing it right to make a decision. If damage and loss of use from another backup are not huge issues, I'd advise you to let it ride and see how it does.
                This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.


                • #23
                  Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

                  And, btw, I am also single, not unattractive, curiously and coincidentally possessed of an engineering degree as well, and finding the idea of San Diego pretty nice right now as we just had yet another spring snowstorm.
                  This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.


                  • #24
                    Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

                    alex, excellent post all rolled into 1

                    scary part is it's exactly the same mentality as i've communicated with her in emails

                    the poster is a person i've never met, but know lots of people that know her. and from what i've been told, she's as nice a persons as they come

                    i too agree that the wait and see is a good position to take as she has no track record there. lots of unknowns and lots of poor workmanship.

                    if things work out, i'll go there and cut out the plastic with a modified spiral root saw. of course i'll share the tool design with you all

                    so why is it that everyone wants to help her, but if it was a him, they would be told to hire a plumber

                    well maybe joey would help a him.

                    looking forward to the end results.

                    phoebe it is


                    • #25
                      Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

                      Great minds think alike; root saw was exactly my thought as well.

                      Why does everyone want to help her? Duh? Wake the eff up! Someone vaguely my age, clearly single, and of a gender I'm interested in shows the degree of general sanity and commonsensedness required to post that vid? Tell me if there were no Joey that you'd not be driving to San Diego.

                      Dang! I pray for male, and irrevocably commited female customers with a tenth of the level of resonableness and curiosity this person has shown, and cherish them when they happen. A single hetero woman with a problem I can fix?... Knave! Saddle My Horse!
                      Last edited by Ace Sewer; 05-06-2010, 01:25 AM.
                      This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.


                      • #26
                        Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

                        Why are people interested in helping? I suspect Ace is more than partially correct but what intrigues me is the fact that the homeowner was sharp enough and had the ability to come up with videos. This gives us time to look view the situation in our leisure, and makes the interesting (is it cracked or not, and penetrating pipe scenario) more plausible to solve with video cues.
                        Time flies like an arrow.

                        Fruit flies like a banana.


                        • #27
                          Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

                          MY SUGGESTIONS #1 FOLLOW THE ADVICE ABOVE !


                          THE MONEY TO SPEND ?


                          PAY ANY PART OF THIS,

                          PROBABLY NOT BUT IT DOE'S NOT HURT TO ASK






                          LIVE OR THE HOUSE LAST
                          Last edited by JERRYMAC; 05-06-2010, 11:19 AM.
                          FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                          SINCE JAN. 1989


                          • #28
                            Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

                            Ace Sewer, very nicely done. Well said! Bravo-bravo-bravo.

                            You guys can’t see me now, but I’m doing a standing ovation for y’all. (I don’t really have a southern accent but Rick sure does.)

                            This forum has taught me so much I’m so grateful I found you guys. You guys are truly like a family. I can’t thank you enough.

                            On a side note, with all these reality shows everywhere how come you guys don’t have one of your own? You know what you’re talking about, absolutely hilarious, deal with crap all day and it’s extremely entertaining. I would DVR every week for sure!

                            So now the search continues to find someone with the proper jetting knowledge to clean out my pipes. I have had the same plumber back 4-5 times but I don’t think he has enough experience. He jetted it once with a cutter and then jetted it once with a chain.

                            It’s my understanding that it’s only usually big companies that have these jetters or am I wrong?
                            Rick, you have your own jetter right?
                            Can someone recommend a company down here that I can hire to jett my pipes again and somehow get this sludge gone?

                            There is a cleanout on the front lawn but they can’t send a jetter up it. There is a 6”-12” drop a few feet before the cleanout. Is it possible to clean this out without going backwards?

                            I do see what I call “an old cleanout” or what I think is the old cleanout before this “said” drop. I’m going to camera it tonight and see if I can locate it. My hope is it’s in the front planter box and I can dig it up. Lets cross our fingers boys.

                            If I can’t find another access point I’m hoping there is some other creative way to clean this mess up.

                            I’ll post the updated video tonight.

                            When Rick designs this special cutter we’ll be selling them to all interested parties. All proceeds will go to freeing little Phoebe Jaqueline. Let's not be cheap boys!

                            Below is a rough sketch I did of a bird’s eye view of my pipes. Nothing is to scale. I was trying to get across the drop in the pipes that doesn’t allow anything to go up the pipe through the cleanout. Let me know if anything needs clarification.

                            Thank you so much to everyone for all your time and help with this. I have to find a way to pay if forward.
                            Attached Files


                            • #29
                              Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

                              Here is a picture in case someone doesn't have Adobe.

                              Attached Files


                              • #30
                                Re: Cast Iron Nightmare...I think

                                I don't see why you'd not be able to make that step up with a jetter. It would be a pain, but could probably be done by the right operator with the right equipment.

                                The 'old cleanout' is entering the system from the side of the pipe, not the top, as drawn. This would be unusual for a cleanout. It may be a waste line from another bathroom, or could be that your foundation drain is tied into the sewer line, or could be a cleanout after all.

                                If going up stream from the existing cleanout is not an option, and you can't find the other, the step in the line upstream of the 'new cleanout' would be a candidate for a spot to dig and create an access by replacing the 90 at the top with a san-t and bringing it up to grade. Does your friend's camera have a locator with a depth reading? If so you could use that to find where it is and how deep to see if that is a good option. Also use this if you have it for looking for the other one. A 2' hole is easy to dig. A 3' hole is more work. 4' is as deep as I will go without a machine.

                                Probably not necessary anyway; this can be done from the toilet. Grind out the prutruding abs, knock the pipe clean, jet the heck out of it, and pull what debris doesn't wash out up to where you can get to it with a wet vac hose pushed in from the toilet.

                                How big was the machine he used? Was it gas engine powered or electric? Any idea of how much flow it put out (typically rated in gallons per minute). I suspect it was undersized for this job. There are nozzles that will jet scale. It can be done with a chain knocker on a cable machine (snake) as well.
                                This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.