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Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

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  • Bob D.
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by MikeD1980 View Post
    I am about to do just that. on top of not submitting the well guys inspection report and just make my own damn inspection report saying it is up to fha and MI state codes!

    a few forged documents never hurt no one!
    I guess that last statement might be true if you consider yourself a nobody, but I am sure you were kidding about forging papers. No one in their right mind would make a statement like that in a public forum then go and do it.

    Right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Driller1
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
    Were they illegal then? Around here well pits were how it was done. Current code requires new wells be 18 inches above ground. There are plenty of homes that aren't up to current code. The towns I work in aren't forcing anyone to get rid of the pits

    Every home I work at that still has a well pit I recommend extending the well up. My main motivation is 20 years from now I don't want to be digging it out again. From a long term cost point of view it really is in every ones best interest. Yes it's expensive to extend the well up but it isn't getting any cheaper and some day they'll get around to requiring that work be done anyway. Add to that pit-less set ups are so much better in so many ways, it makes future labor on the same well take much less time.
    It is a point of sale thing. The old 2" around here are not worth putting any money into. They will get a hole in the casing. Just a matter of time.

    The HUD projects I worked on the buyer got a new well, pump and tank. The lender paid. In these cases the lender was also the seller. At other times the sellers paid.

    2" wells are just not as good as 5" PVC.
    Last edited by Driller1; 05-12-2010, 06:49 PM. Reason: Correction of wording. Long day on the rig. LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • BHD
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by DanLawrence View Post
    No one found the stick thing funny ...... tough crowd.... I am going back to the drain cleaning forum, you experts...
    I smiled at it,
    and if my SIL was around I bet he could find it as well, no he is not 100% but I have had him trace out wires and pipes I have put small marks on the earth and had the pro locators come out and he was right on on my stuff,

    Leave a comment:


  • DanLawrence
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    No one found the stick thing funny ...... tough crowd.... I am going back to the drain cleaning forum, you experts...

    Leave a comment:


  • boytyperanma
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by Driller1 View Post
    Pits are illegal in Michigan.
    Were they illegal then? Around here well pits were how it was done. Current code requires new wells be 18 inches above ground. There are plenty of homes that aren't up to current code. The towns I work in aren't forcing anyone to get rid of the pits

    Every home I work at that still has a well pit I recommend extending the well up. My main motivation is 20 years from now I don't want to be digging it out again. From a long term cost point of view it really is in every ones best interest. Yes it's expensive to extend the well up but it isn't getting any cheaper and some day they'll get around to requiring that work be done anyway. Add to that pit-less set ups are so much better in so many ways, it makes future labor on the same well take much less time.

    Leave a comment:


  • boytyperanma
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by MikeD1980 View Post
    I am about to do just that. on top of not submitting the well guys inspection report and just make my own damn inspection report saying it is up to fha and MI state codes!

    a few forged documents never hurt no one!
    I don't endorse forging documents and discourage you from doing so.

    I think you are still learning. Is this your first home buying experience?

    In all aspects of life understand everyone has an agenda. Your is to get into that house, in order to do that you need passing inspections. The lending bank's is to make sure the are making a safe investment, to do that they want everything up to date so they can easily resell the property if needed. The well guy is interested in making money, to do that he is trying to sell you work.

    Your priority should have been to make sure your agenda comes first. When hiring a well guy you should have told him I want a passing inspection at minimal cost. If he couldn't do that you are free to get someone else. He may be the only guy in the area but nothing stops you from getting someone outside the area.

    Leave a comment:


  • Driller1
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
    No idea what Michigan code is. I was actually surprised to hear they require a submersible. Around here the building inspectors have no idea what the codes for residential well systems even are. Well drillers get a lot of discretion in deciding how to do things. Add to that my grandfather set most the standards for the towns I work in, so If I tell them it's OK they just agree.

    Concern I'd have with that set up is freezing. Is the garage heated? If not you could get by with boxing the line in or running a heater tape. The closet needs to be heated.
    Submersbles are not required in Michigan. The thing is no one drills 2" wells anymore. The are more expensive.

    Leave a comment:


  • Driller1
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
    Grandfathered varies with local laws. In MA towns enforcing the laws require the septic and wells be brought up to code before a sale is allowed. There is very little enforcement on wells but septic's they have very little leeway

    In your case grandfather protection sounds like it has little to do with it anyway. Banks can give or deny loans for a lot of reasons in your case, you are describing the bank saying we won't offer a loan unless it is for a property up to current code, so it doesn't matter if previous code makes these things OK. You want the loan you play by their rules.

    I have no idea what your well guy is including or excluding from his estimate. If I were doing the job you'd be looking at a minimum of $1700. There are a lot of unknowns going on. I wouldn't bid the job at 2k till i have a good picture of whats happening. Looking at worst case bidding that he could easily lose his shirt.

    Say the original installer was cheap and decided against a well pit. You'd be searching for a 6inch diameter well 5 feet bellow the surface. Even with a good metal detector that could be a half day locating it. Then after finding it ever try digging a 6 foot hole by hand, that's a hell of a long time with a shovel. The choice is then spend most a day digging or bring a backhoe in. starting to see how the cost can climb?
    Pits are illegal in Michigan.

    Leave a comment:


  • Driller1
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by MikeD1980 View Post
    i am not complaining about price. I don't own the home to make the repairs. My current problem is that he failed inspection and says michigan code requires pump to be replaced. Local Building Inspector says he is incorrect and that the current system is acceptable, however if any MAJOR repairs were ever to be made to the current well, that at that time the pump would have to be replaced.
    now well guy is holding up whole loan process and could very likely cost me the house, when all I asked for was a inspection of functionality.
    Your best information will come from your local health department. It is free.

    Leave a comment:


  • Driller1
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    The problem with the old well is that it is not one foot above grade. That is code.

    IMO, the $2000 was to put a pitless adapter on it. That price is about right. Don't do it. This well is to old to put any money in.

    We have drilled a few for HUD. They will pay for it. Yes, you need a new well. The trick is in the documentation to the lender. Look for a driller that can document.

    This will give you a complete new system.

    Also the old well will have to be abandoned or the driller state it could not be found on the well log. HUD will pay that too. Be sure and put the permit price on the paper work.
    Last edited by Driller1; 05-12-2010, 02:19 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MikeD1980
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
    When the inspector said he needed to know where the well was you could have. Put a stake in the ground 100 feet from the septic and none would have been the wiser.
    I am about to do just that. on top of not submitting the well guys inspection report and just make my own damn inspection report saying it is up to fha and MI state codes!

    a few forged documents never hurt no one!

    Leave a comment:


  • MikeD1980
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    my lender required that I do the inspections and make sure well and septic is up to fha requirements. we have a signed sales contract and are supposed to close in 3 days!

    Leave a comment:


  • boytyperanma
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    You brought him into the picture. I think you've complicated things by putting in the extra effort. From My point of view if Freddy wanted to sell the house they should have been willing to make the effort to make it sale-able.

    You get your loan approval and look for homes that fall into the requirements of the loan. You managed to find a house that didn't. IMHO you tell the seller to meet your requirements or you'll find someone that will.

    You've stepped into a situation where you're spending money on someone else's house. You're paying for the inspections and repairs. have they even signed anything saying they won't just sell the house to someone else anyway?

    If I was in Freddy's position this seems like a really sweat deal. Some sucker came along and is paying for inspections and gathering data on the property. Even if he doesn't end up buying the house, he's made it more sell-able, thus more valuable for us at his expense

    Understand most the guys doing the inspections for code and such aren't going put much thought into where the data comes from. The look at the date available and pass judgment.

    When the inspector said he needed to know where the well was you could have. Put a stake in the ground 100 feet from the septic and none would have been the wiser.

    Leave a comment:


  • MikeD1980
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
    2 grand is nothing! Use Your head Man !
    i am not complaining about price. I don't own the home to make the repairs. My current problem is that he failed inspection and says michigan code requires pump to be replaced. Local Building Inspector says he is incorrect and that the current system is acceptable, however if any MAJOR repairs were ever to be made to the current well, that at that time the pump would have to be replaced.
    now well guy is holding up whole loan process and could very likely cost me the house, when all I asked for was a inspection of functionality.

    Leave a comment:


  • speedbump
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Your well guy seems awful optimistic that your well is going to be large enough to accept a submersible pump. The smallest well that will accept a submersible pump is 3". Back in the 60's when I was a Well Driller in Oakland county, two inch wells were the norm. Three inch wells were only drilled when there was a pipe shortage and there were maybe one 3" well to 200 or more 2" wells.

    So in my opinion, your well will probably have to be abandoned and a whole new system put in.

    Where are you in Michigan where there is only one driller around?

    I'm not trying to pry you from this Forum, but there are two Michigan Drillers on my forum who might be able to give you some help.

    Leave a comment:

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