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Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

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  • toolaholic
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    2 grand is nothing! Use Your head Man !

    Leave a comment:


  • boytyperanma
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by MikeD1980 View Post
    more info..
    Well pipes come up thru floor in attached garage and go thru the wall to a closet in the breezeway between garage and house.
    Closet has 2 line deep well jet pump and a pressure tank.

    Anyone from Michigan know if this meets code?
    No idea what Michigan code is. I was actually surprised to hear they require a submersible. Around here the building inspectors have no idea what the codes for residential well systems even are. Well drillers get a lot of discretion in deciding how to do things. Add to that my grandfather set most the standards for the towns I work in, so If I tell them it's OK they just agree.

    Concern I'd have with that set up is freezing. Is the garage heated? If not you could get by with boxing the line in or running a heater tape. The closet needs to be heated.

    Leave a comment:


  • boytyperanma
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Grandfathered varies with local laws. In MA towns enforcing the laws require the septic and wells be brought up to code before a sale is allowed. There is very little enforcement on wells but septic's they have very little leeway

    In your case grandfather protection sounds like it has little to do with it anyway. Banks can give or deny loans for a lot of reasons in your case, you are describing the bank saying we won't offer a loan unless it is for a property up to current code, so it doesn't matter if previous code makes these things OK. You want the loan you play by their rules.

    I have no idea what your well guy is including or excluding from his estimate. If I were doing the job you'd be looking at a minimum of $1700. There are a lot of unknowns going on. I wouldn't bid the job at 2k till i have a good picture of whats happening. Looking at worst case bidding that he could easily lose his shirt.

    Say the original installer was cheap and decided against a well pit. You'd be searching for a 6inch diameter well 5 feet bellow the surface. Even with a good metal detector that could be a half day locating it. Then after finding it ever try digging a 6 foot hole by hand, that's a hell of a long time with a shovel. The choice is then spend most a day digging or bring a backhoe in. starting to see how the cost can climb?

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  • MikeD1980
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    more info..
    Well pipes come up thru floor in attached garage and go thru the wall to a closet in the breezeway between garage and house.
    Closet has 2 line deep well jet pump and a pressure tank.

    Anyone from Michigan know if this meets code?

    Leave a comment:


  • MikeD1980
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Well has to be up to code before bank will close on loan and seller has been very uncooperative with whole thing. I even offered to go 1/2 by forfeiting the homeowners warranty that is $1100. So far they said bring a letter from my bank saying it HAS to be repaired and they will think about it. I highly doubt they will fix it. original FHA appraisal said discharge on TPR For HOW had to be replaced because someone downsized it and they wouldn't do that! cost me $6 for part at Lowes and 5 minutes to do it.

    Shouldn't something like this be "grandfathered" in as when it was installed it was up to code?

    I am just worried that maybe the well guy sees an opportunity to make some money and is jumping on it even though there could be a way to pass this well?!

    Leave a comment:


  • Ace Sewer
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    $2k doesn't sound out of line at all. The pump alone is $700 or so, then there is running power out to the well head, finding a circuit to run it from, all that expensive well pump wire down to however deep it is, after you find it in the first place, installing a pitless if there isn't one, etc etc. $2k sounds pretty cheap. Tell seller to drop $2k on the price? or does it have to be done before fha will cut the $ loose to close? Would they accept $2k in escrow for the repair to get it closed?
    Last edited by Ace Sewer; 05-10-2010, 09:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BobsPlumbing
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Sorry to hear. There will always be Sharks in the water.

    J.C.

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  • MikeD1980
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    ok, seller doesn't care where well is, it is a foreclosure.

    Just found out today that the well doesn't pass FHA cause it isn't up to Michigan code by having a jet pump, has to be submersible and only well company around wants $2000 to locate well and install submersible.

    Health Dept and County has no record of where well is, The well guy that came and inspected it is the only Well Co around, and he hasn't been in business long enough to have drilled this well.

    So now I get to wait around and see if seller (Freddie Mac) will spend the $2000 to have well located and pump replaced. If not, I am out the cost of Home Inspection, Well Inspection, Septic Inspection, and the few minor repairs I did to the house to make it pass the FHA Appraisal.

    Turns out, that the seller knew the well wasn't up to code, because they had that same well guy out there 3 months ago to replace Bladder tank and he told them then that it wasn't up to code and they said, "get water running in the house at the least cost possible" yet they still accepted my offer of FHA!!

    Leave a comment:


  • boytyperanma
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by Ace Sewer View Post
    What... the pump's in the house then? All I ever see around here are submersibles, occaisionally with a holding tank and shallow well jet pump at the house if the well is slow.
    Yeah it's in the house. Deep well jet. Submersibles were around then just very pricey in comparison to the cheaper and more available jet pumps

    Leave a comment:


  • Ace Sewer
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    What... the pump's in the house then? All I ever see around here are submersibles, occaisionally with a holding tank and shallow well jet pump at the house if the well is slow.

    Leave a comment:


  • BobsPlumbing
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Originally posted by Ace Sewer View Post
    No records of the original permit? that's where I'd start if a look around didn't tell me anything.

    Most locators will pick up 50-60 hz. Does it run? turn the power on and try to find the wires with a locator. Or find the wires at the house end, disconnect them, energized them and then locate.

    Your local 800 no dig type service should be able to put you in touch with a company who can do this.
    No wires on this one. Sorry.

    J.C.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ace Sewer
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    No records of the original permit? that's where I'd start if a look around didn't tell me anything.

    Most locators will pick up 50-60 hz. Does it run? turn the power on and try to find the wires with a locator. Or find the wires at the house end, disconnect them, energized them and then locate.

    Your local 800 no dig type service should be able to put you in touch with a company who can do this.
    Last edited by Ace Sewer; 05-10-2010, 08:00 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • boytyperanma
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Your best bet is to look for clues of the original installer and hope they are around and have records.

    Absent any records you need to someone experienced in locating wells. Experience matters. There are many clues a rookie in the field or homeowner won't pick up on. Size of trees. Size of the pump. Knowledge of how others in the field did their work. Size and types of drill rigs used in the area at the time.

    As others suggested disconnecting a line can give you an idea of how far from the house the well is.

    Based on what you've said so far if you were in my area. I'd expect it to be a drilled well. I'd expect the well to be in a well pit 10-20 feet from the house. The well pits are typically 1 or 2 3 foot diameter concrete casings with a concrete lid on top. It would be buried 1-2 feet bellow the surface. I'd expect the piping to be plastic, ABS, possibly PVC in the well.

    The concrete square you've described does not sound typical of anything I've seen.

    My area now requires the well be 100 feet from the septic, 25 feet from the road, and 100 feet from a natural water body or wetland.

    It sounds like you are generally concerned about where the well is, but in my area passing inspections are a requirement of the seller not the buyer. Why aren't they locating the well?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob D.
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    If the well is from 65 it is probably galv pipe right?
    Not much plastic in use back then.

    Check the pump and see if there is a sticker from the well driller on there or some other clue as to who might have installed it. Then give them a call you might get lucky. If its from '65 might not be much help but if the well is newer they might have some kind of record.

    Look on the wall near the pipe where it exits the building, might be a cryptic note about the location of the well. It might only give a distance like 45' or an arrow and a number, ya never know.

    Don't wells require a permit from the state? You probably don't have time to go that route but the location would have been part of the permit.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanLawrence
    replied
    Re: Old buried well? Urgent help needed!

    Call me old fashion but I like putting two sticks together and crossing them making an X. Now here is the important part.... walk around and the sticks will get closer together or further apart and that is how you know if your getting closer or further....

    Leave a comment:

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