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  • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

    And you should give him credit and thanks for posting tested joints without dope or tape Rick.

    Constructive criticism may be warranted, but credit is also due.

    J.C.

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    • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

      jc. if you actually read all of the post, you will know that what he said and what he actually did are 2 different things.

      i've got thousands of gal, black and brass nipples at my shop. the point was fields threads require pipe dope, teflon or both. i rather doubt, other than to prove a point, he assembles any of his pipe without dope or teflon. i rather doubt any of us too.

      the only thing he proved was he has a camera and now can post all of the defective gal pipe and fittings he comes across.

      maybe if he used domestic fittings, he would have better luck. getting domestic pipe is difficult out here and very expensive. getting domestic fittings are very simple.

      rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
        jc. if you actually read all of the post, you will know that what he said and what he actually did are 2 different things.

        i've got thousands of gal, black and brass nipples at my shop. the point was fields threads require pipe dope, teflon or both. i rather doubt, other than to prove a point, he assembles any of his pipe without dope or teflon. i rather doubt any of us too.

        the only thing he proved was he has a camera and now can post all of the defective gal pipe and fittings he comes across.

        maybe if he used domestic fittings, he would have better luck. getting domestic pipe is difficult out here and very expensive. getting domestic fittings are very simple.

        rick.
        Thought I did. Ah well, in the end the only one that really matters is the first sentence of post 171.

        J.C.

        Comment


        • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
          go back and read your own post if their still up. we all know that factory threads are 10 times better than field cut threads.

          unless all you install is factory nipples and off the shelf sizes, you're going to have to thread pipe in the field.

          not trying to give you a hard time. just trying to put it into a real world everyday plumbing chore.

          if i wanted to give you a hard time, i'd ask where is the 66 second pipe threading speed test you were going to do and post a video of

          there's a reason why 99% of us buy nipples and don't cut our own nipples.

          rick.
          Gee, I always buy them cause it's a crap load cheaper to buy than make.

          This thread has been a real hoot though. Never thought a couple guys would argue this much over gas piping, but then again who's time and material and who's flat rate?

          You guys are killing me
          sigpic

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          • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            Gee, I always buy them cause it's a crap load cheaper to buy than make.

            This thread has been a real hoot though. Never thought a couple guys would argue this much over gas piping, but then again who's time and material and who's flat rate?

            You guys are killing me
            hang on... this thread isn't long enough........


            I run all my gas in PB pipe, and I use sharkbite fittings!

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            • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

              In a real world application I dare say I agree with Rick. Of course I put dope on the threads. The point was that it is the thread that "should" be making the seal and I believe that was just demonstrated. It is also the steel and not the coating that should make a galvy pipe whole, but there is no proof. Never once did I say I was going to field cut for that example. You will also notice there was no galvy harmed during the making of that test

              Comment


              • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                When I installed gas lines with gal many years ago from the meter and throughout a new home I bought the fittings and pipe from my supplier cut the pipe and threaded them with my trusty manual Ridgid rachett dies doped the thread and screwed them together and sometimes they leaked even with the dope the fittings I bought were factory machined and threaded and my not so new Ridgid dies would never completely match the factory threaded fittings and as my dies got older and you know you just keep on using them the threads got worse and worse and more dope was needed.
                You might be right Kevin if you had the top of the range dies and specialized in gas piping but the majority of licenced plumbers on this forum are alrounders and do the lot in the plumbing field and like me allowed my dies to wear out and had to slop the dope on to seal the thread and as I posted a while back I haven`t use gal for many years as it is a thing of the past so this whole thread is accademic and there are better things to argue about.

                Tony

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                • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                  Thanks Tony.

                  I have to ask a question then from your experience. Which pipe did you see more leaks black, galvy, or equal for both?

                  By my experience it is galvy that has more failures. It is also my experience that a DIY is going to get supplies at the local hardware store where USA is not generally on the shelf. I have major doubts that a DIY'er is going to pressure test anything. So as long as they are coming here and asking for professional advise for their project I think it is less wise to suggest and promote galvy.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                    Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                    Thanks Tony.

                    I have to ask a question then from your experience. Which pipe did you see more leaks black, galvy, or equal for both?

                    By my experience it is galvy that has more failures. It is also my experience that a DIY is going to get supplies at the local hardware store where USA is not generally on the shelf. I have major doubts that a DIY'er is going to pressure test anything. So as long as they are coming here and asking for professional advise for their project I think it is less wise to suggest and promote galvy.
                    I didn`t come across much black as it was being fazed out with gal when I started my apprenticeship in the sixties so I used galvanised piping and quite frankly when I look bact it was a pain in the *** to work with having to manually thread it and it was heavy and dirty but now with new newer material its a dream doing gas supplies as there are no leaks.

                    Tony

                    Comment


                    • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                      [QUOTE=Kevin Jones;301767]I give the code...you still argue. The first numbers are the strongest codes. I already said that. I gave you the weakest codes which you did not look at and who is being dogmatic now. Your pipe fails!!!

                      I have the video cam at work and will try to make a video of a field thread in real time. Start to finish and assembled without pipe dope and pressure test just for you. Dope is not the seal. It is a lubricant. No dope will be used and all new fittings.[/QUOTE]

                      kevin go back to post #117 posted 6/25/10 at 11:02 pm your time.

                      Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                      In a real world application I dare say I agree with Rick. Of course I put dope on the threads. The point was that it is the thread that "should" be making the seal and I believe that was just demonstrated. It is also the steel and not the coating that should make a galvy pipe whole, but there is no proof. Never once did I say I was going to field cut for that example. You will also notice there was no galvy harmed during the making of that test

                      the whole point is you have gone back and forth so many times with figures, questions, edits and can't seem to remember what you wrote.

                      fortunately i have a good memory when it comes to plumbing. lousy when it comes to names, although i don't think i'll forget your name anytime soon

                      don't get carried away with your response as we don't want mark to delete this thread. already had 50 post deleted. it gets difficult to follow when half the post are no longer there

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                        Sorry I did forget that part as we were discussing 2 different things at the same time. I think the first test has shown that threads do make the seal. Now you want to see it done with field cut threads. You will get fewer joints of this example as I cannot nor do I have any desire to make short nipples. Do you want it submerged? I can post pics of this.

                        Are you really sure you want the video? After all, should I beat that 66 sec. time you will have a hard time claiming that #1 status.

                        I will be happy to do it and you will need to wait for it. Not an excuse, it is a fact. I pulled something in my abdominal yesterday pulling out a 44 gal. pressure tank with a blown bladder still 1/2 full of water. I was feeling it hard yesterday just making unlubricated threads seal up. Not really sure how this is gonna go tomorrow pulling out 2.5" black iron on a 50 year old steam boiler to refit the new one.

                        If you can give me some time to heal, I will make your video for you. I also will NOT practice in the meantime. There is no doubt that physically I need to be 100% to beat that time and it is not worth hurting myself worse at this time just for this thread.
                        Last edited by Kevin Jones; 06-29-2010, 05:05 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                          Originally posted by AFM View Post
                          When I installed gas lines with gal many years ago from the meter and throughout a new home I bought the fittings and pipe from my supplier cut the pipe and threaded them with my trusty manual Ridgid rachett dies doped the thread and screwed them together and sometimes they leaked even with the dope the fittings I bought were factory machined and threaded and my not so new Ridgid dies would never completely match the factory threaded fittings and as my dies got older and you know you just keep on using them the threads got worse and worse and more dope was needed.
                          You might be right Kevin if you had the top of the range dies and specialized in gas piping but the majority of licenced plumbers on this forum are alrounders and do the lot in the plumbing field and like me allowed my dies to wear out and had to slop the dope on to seal the thread and as I posted a while back I haven`t use gal for many years as it is a thing of the past so this whole thread is accademic and there are better things to argue about.

                          Tony
                          Tony I am sorry I did dismiss that point that night trying to make mine and that was wrong. You are absolutely right! It is a complete pain to make an undoped joint seal. So dope does become the weakest link for a small leak. That small leak is the leak that creates the one I am talking about.

                          On older systems the pipe dope will also be dried out. The new owners decide that the electric stove must be gas. They have the system repiped and the system gets repressured to test the new line section. The tech sees a pressure drop and soap checks his work. No leaks on his stuff...it's Friday afternoon and he is suppose to meet the guys. It's been that way for years he thinks...it's ok. He dismisses the test and documents a good pt on his paperwork.

                          What actually happened was he blew out some dry dope that was making the seal and made a very large leak. Fortunately the customer came home and had a good nose. She also new exactly what to do. This sytem was on propane, which in south Florida is mostly all there is which is why plumbers can't pipe gas there. She did not flip a light switch, left the house, turned off her tank, and made a phone call. The gas did not make ignition from the water heater that was within 5' of the leak. The leak and the water heater were also in a recess. There was a real chance there due to lazy work.

                          That was a real case for the dope being the initial starter of things. The weakest link goes to the dope. Yet that ignition would have only flashed. The odds would be poor that it held a flame had it ignited. The flash would have exhaust the O2 available in the area and put the flame out...provided it didn't blow the garage apart. Had the leak been closer, or the equipment been in a more confined space then a constant flame will have a chance of holding. That is the source of the perfect storm.

                          One other fact I should have mentioned. The new range was a 6 burner commercial type with standing pilots. He was expecting to see a pressure drop and had already decided not to shut them down because he was late. He was going to judge how big the leak should be. Kinda sounds like some Fer###l Meter I refused to ever put on my service truck directly to the regional managers face infront of the entire crew.
                          Last edited by Kevin Jones; 06-29-2010, 06:39 PM. Reason: addition to the facts

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                          • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                            I think I see a trend. I don't know how yet. Please somebody run a no reply thread what type of gas do you have natural or LP poll.

                            Rick we already know your is wet and running down your leg.
                            Last edited by Kevin Jones; 06-29-2010, 07:38 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                              "What we have is a failure to communicate"

                              In Melbourne Australia where I live we started out with Towns gas made from coal with a max pressure of 1.5KPA (don`t ask me to convert back to imperial as I carn't) and then moved on to Natural gas and because most of Melbourne had low presssure black piping with Town gas they restricted the pressure to avoid leakage or blowouts in the older pipes and appliances but with newer suburbs being built with newer piping and appliances they increased the pressures to those suburbs and have continued to do so.
                              LPG of propane is only used where Natural gas in not available like farms and holiday houses on the outshirts of our cities.

                              Tony

                              Comment


                              • Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                                Originally posted by AFM View Post
                                "What we have is a failure to communicate"

                                In Melbourne Australia where I live we started out with Towns gas made from coal with a max pressure of 1.5KPA (don`t ask me to convert back to imperial as I carn't) and then moved on to Natural gas and because most of Melbourne had low presssure black piping with Town gas they restricted the pressure to avoid leakage or blowouts in the older pipes and appliances but with newer suburbs being built with newer piping and appliances they increased the pressures to those suburbs and have continued to do so.
                                LPG of propane is only used where Natural gas in not available like farms and holiday houses on the outshirts of our cities.

                                Tony
                                1.5 KPA equals 6" W.C. or about 1/5th a psi. With L.P. you still need to pressure test the entire system back to standard, which for us was 15 psi. No matter the age. In Indian River County we had to hold at final inspection with all appliances connected, valves open, and first stage line open to the tank valve at 9" W.C. for 24 hours. That is a tight system.

                                There are a few strips of natural gas. Infact I would size underground distribution systems for 300+ home communities just under enough to keep natural gas off the line. LP carries a higher btu/volume so if the line is sized just right it makes it not worth taking over. Basically if you don't live on main street you got LP.
                                Last edited by Kevin Jones; 06-30-2010, 08:48 PM. Reason: punctuation

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