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Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

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  • #46
    Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    I was really questioning more why you would use a Code for HUD Mobile Homes more than anything else.

    I have never had a casting hole in a fitting or a void in a pipe seam which would pass a pressure test. The truth is there are many occasions where you owe it to your customer to spend the extra money on galvanize pipe for gaslines to prevent corrosion which could be caused by a harsh environment.

    Mark

    HUD is the government standards. Often times we are working on various government projects or reworking a new home purchase that meets HUD standards with upgrades. Point is I see so many houses a year that I just stopped asking and started following the toughest codes no matter what. The result is I nor my crew has failed an inspection in over 15 years.

    As for galvy for the prevention of corrosion? That is outside as a rule. Please use it outside all you want...the chance of a high temp fire outside is far less likely. You still have to paint the pipe threads though or by some means protect from the elements.

    Cast holes in fittings and seam rips are not that rare. The rate we installed I bet there were easy 12 maybe 20 fittings a year and about 3 to 4 seam rips per year.

    By the way I see the next comment coming so...I USE ONLY USA PIPE AND FITTINGS

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

      I'm really trying to get a feel for where your experience comes from. One thing we find on this site is we all have different requirements and challenges in the areas we work. You did not quote a HUD Housing Standard you quoted a HUD Manufactured Home Standard. As such I was wondering if the 600-homes a year you plumbed may have been in a factory setting building manufactured homes? There may in fact be different requirements for a home that is moved along the highway (vibrations).

      As far as Title 24, Part 3208, it is no more strict than NFPA 54, UPC or IFGC. They all include the same basic language.

      By the way, one thing California and HUD have in common is they both use the nomenclature "Title 24" as their section for building standards.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

        Factory...no way. All field...I did some time in OK, most of my time in FL (toughest gas codes in the US., a plumber is not allowed to run gas pipe).
        My standards game from 5 different and active code books all having jurisdiction. The master exam there is nearly 700 questions in 8 hours covering 5 different books and 9 different tests...all of which you must complete with it's either 80 or 85%...can't remember. You also need to remember that Florida is HUD home central. Everywhere you turn is another manufactured home sitting in a golf park.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

          Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
          Sorry for the delay on the info...between work, dad, and husband some days do not have enough hours.

          Ok I will make 2 concessions only. One the set temp. of 1500F off by 50 degrees. Two NFPA gave jurisdiction over to 24CFR 3280.705.

          And I quote:

          3280.705 - Gas piping systems.

          (b) Materials. All materials used for the installation, extension, alteration, or repair of any gas piping system shall be new and free from defects or internal obstructions. It shall not be permissible to repair defects in gas piping or fittings. Inferior or defective materials shall be removed and replaced with acceptable material. The system shall be made of materials having a melting point of not less than 1,450 F.
          I DO understand your point & think it may be something that myself and others have not thought about. And maybe it should be code.

          But I'm pretty sure it is NOT code by what you list above.

          Contact the code writers for interpretation of what "materials having a melting point of not less than 1,450 F" means. I think you'll find their interpretation of that temperature threshold to apply to the galvanized pipe as a whole instead of just the coating.

          I don't blame you for following the strictest methods available and even "seeing through the code".

          Are all of your hangers, all-threads, screws in split rings, screws for standoff brackets/foot-ceiling plates rated for 1450 F? I'll be honest, I don't know if mine are.

          That code you list does say "all materials" and the "system". It does not say all pipe & fittings, but materials.

          Think about it.

          J.C.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

            What I don't understand about Your temp. concern and Galvy. If an iron pipe was painted
            with oil paint, that paint would fail at a very low Temp. So the Iron pipe is left intact. Same if the galvanized coating failed at a lower temp., the iron pipe is still sound !
            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

              Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
              What I don't understand about Your temp. concern and Galvy. If an iron pipe was painted
              with oil paint, that paint would fail at a very low Temp. So the Iron pipe is left intact. Same if the galvanized coating failed at a lower temp., the iron pipe is still sound !
              I'm pretty sure he's simply saying that the galvanizing process could cover any evidence of a defective steel pipe that may be detected if the galvanized coating was not there.

              J.C.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                I'm in Kevin's camp here but for different reasons. Nobody around here pipes gas with galvy anything. Neither pipe or fittings. Again, the gas utility will not set meter on galvanized. The code is ambiguous in areas. I can see Kevin's melting point argument and I think that since the pipe is hot dipped coated you really do have to take that coating into account. It is possible that the coating could conceal a sand hole. I think there are places that will allow you to bury galvanized gas pipe but that notion sends shivers up the spine. The galvy coating can be chipped and the threads are areas also where rust holes can develop.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                  A pinhole leak developing due to a 1,500 degree fire is not going to add any significant fuel to an already raging inferno.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                    Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                    What I don't understand about Your temp. concern and Galvy. If an iron pipe was painted
                    with oil paint, that paint would fail at a very low Temp. So the Iron pipe is left intact. Same if the galvanized coating failed at a lower temp., the iron pipe is still sound !
                    Thank you JC.
                    I am saying that the galvy process can and does cover up faulty pipe. My concern is that what appears to be pipe, really is only paint. Looks good on a PT and we call it good.

                    Case in point. Restaurant in Fort Pierce, FL.
                    We were still allowed to use copper coils to hook up stationary equipment. This particular equipment was being dragged out every so often to clean. Thank you restaurant! Meanwhile they had cinked the copper tube one night. This system was on propane and the leak did find ignition from a pilot. As you can imagine it flamed up and the manifold for the system was above the flame. The system was piped in galvy because 1. it was on the beach and 2. it looked good. There was a fault in a field cut pipe section that the flame took to. Fortunately the Ansil system took over and shut the system down. I was called out to investigate the fire at 3:00 AM. Yes I was the rep/construction manager for the gas company.

                    I have seen it happen. It is 1 in maybe 5000 and then that 1 needs a fire. Even still why take the risk.

                    Ok if there is an indoor chance of pipe failure. Say a fruit packing house or something with high humidity where you feel black iron is going to fail, there is a product called "Cora-seal" don't quote me. It is wonderful stuff. If you feel galvy is the answer, then do what you must. That type of job only comes around maybe 1 in a 500. So now by using galvy were needed you have reduced your exposure by 1/500.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                      sorry 499/500

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                        I'm not sure anyone is using galvanize for gas lines on a regular basis. It is used as needed and I have never seen a single issue with it.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                          This all actually got started by certain areas that promoted the use of galvy and tend to use it exclusively.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                            Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                            This all actually got started by certain areas that promoted the use of galvy and tend to use it exclusively.
                            Wow, what areas are those? That really doesn't make sense cost wise. Most people I have worked with might use a short piece here or there but if you were ordering for a project you would go black.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                              Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                              I DO understand your point & think it may be something that myself and others have not thought about. And maybe it should be code.

                              Are all of your hangers, all-threads, screws in split rings, screws for standoff brackets/foot-ceiling plates rated for 1450 F? I'll be honest, I don't know if mine are.

                              That code you list does say "all materials" and the "system". It does not say all pipe & fittings, but materials.

                              Think about it.

                              J.C.
                              If one is using steel or copper hangers, then your materials meet code. If one is using plastic hangers, not even close.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                                Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                                Wow, what areas are those? That really doesn't make sense cost wise. Most people I have worked with might use a short piece here or there but if you were ordering for a project you would go black.

                                Mark
                                Thanks Mark. That is secondary to my point as of the cost. I was amazed to find out the area was California. I thought FL and CA took turns being the toughest codes in the land, but not on this one.

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