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  • Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

    I have not been on here long and have enjoyed most of the posts. One topic has come up a couple times now, so I want to just address this topic.

    Should galvy be used on gas pipe and if so...when, where, and why?

    NFPA 54 by definition of suitable gas pipe forbids any gas pipe inside a structure with a melting point below 1500F. Zinc melts just under 800F.
    With this knowledge alone, an installer that cares would not put galvy inside a building again. It has nothing to do with flaking of the pipes interior and clogging screens...that is the purpose of a sediment trap.
    So if you have a section of pipe or fitting with a flaw that gets zinc coated and now holds pressure, have you met the code. Of course not...not unless you intend to xray every inch of pipe to verify that it is the steel below and not the zinc above making the pipe whole.

    I have plenty more on this topic but lets just go ahead and get the thread running.

  • #2
    Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

    Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
    I have not been on here long and have enjoyed most of the posts. One topic has come up a couple times now, so I want to just address this topic.

    Should galvy be used on gas pipe and if so...when, where, and why?

    NFPA 54 by definition of suitable gas pipe forbids any gas pipe inside a structure with a melting point below 1500F. Zinc melts just under 800F.
    With this knowledge alone, an installer that cares would not put galvy inside a building again. It has nothing to do with flaking of the pipes interior and clogging screens...that is the purpose of a sediment trap.
    So if you have a section of pipe or fitting with a flaw that gets zinc coated and now holds pressure, have you met the code. Of course not...not unless you intend to xray every inch of pipe to verify that it is the steel below and not the zinc above making the pipe whole.

    I have plenty more on this topic but lets just go ahead and get the thread running.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but galvanized pipe is not 100% zinc. It is a steel pipe-zinc-coated.

    So with the code you are referring too, if you're quoting it correctly, states that no pipe may be installed with a melting point below 1500F.

    What is the melting point of galvanized pipe? NOT the coating of the pipe.

    That's kind of like interpreting a painted black steel pipe may not be used because the paint melts at 500F.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

      Not so...If you have a sand hole or seam rip then it is not black steel making the bond. It is a coating that does not meet the code. I will give you a few degrees being an alloy and not argue that. However, the alloy does not meet the temperature requirements.

      So the bottom line is the pipe is no stronger than it's weakest point. There is no test being done on the installed pipe beyond a pressure test. The pressure test has no way of confirming you have installed nondefective pipe.

      One who wants to be the best at what they do, one who wants to sleep well at night, and one who does not want to answer a premature pipe failure in a court of law will not install galvy inside.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

        By the way...I am a Florida certified 702 Fuel Gas Master. Only 17% of the people taking that test pass the first time. I passed the first time with a 93+%. I know my codes and have dealt with enough code in his head inspectors to know I am using it correctly.

        I also have built 3 gas training facilities and assist training for the fire departments for how to deal with gas fires.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

          Help me out here. What exactly does the code you're referring too say. Can you copy and paste it. Might all learn something.

          Thanks.

          J.C.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

            I hate computers...give me a set of wrenches and a torch. I am working on downloading the newest NFPA 54 to give you the exact point of fact as you requested. I am having some download issues, but will have it up A.S.A.P.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

              Coming from a non-plumber just trying to apply logic to the question.

              Is there a minimal wall size in the code for black pipe as there is for copper pipe? I suspect there would be. How do you know there isn't a manufacturing defect with a particular piece of black pipe that has a thinner wall than required, but one that holds pressure?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                I have not been on here long and have enjoyed most of the posts. One topic has come up a couple times now, so I want to just address this topic.

                Should galvy be used on gas pipe and if so...when, where, and why?

                NFPA 54 by definition of suitable gas pipe forbids any gas pipe inside a structure with a melting point below 1500F. Zinc melts just under 800F.
                With this knowledge alone, an installer that cares would not put galvy inside a building again. It has nothing to do with flaking of the pipes interior and clogging screens...that is the purpose of a sediment trap.
                So if you have a section of pipe or fitting with a flaw that gets zinc coated and now holds pressure, have you met the code. Of course not...not unless you intend to xray every inch of pipe to verify that it is the steel below and not the zinc above making the pipe whole.

                I have plenty more on this topic but lets just go ahead and get the thread running.
                If the pipe had a sand casting hole or an open seam the pipe is illegal regardless of the material, making your point moot.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                  Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                  Not so...If you have a sand hole or seam rip then it is not black steel making the bond. It is a coating that does not meet the code. I will give you a few degrees being an alloy and not argue that. However, the alloy does not meet the temperature requirements.

                  So the bottom line is the pipe is no stronger than it's weakest point. There is no test being done on the installed pipe beyond a pressure test. The pressure test has no way of confirming you have installed nondefective pipe.

                  One who wants to be the best at what they do, one who wants to sleep well at night, and one who does not want to answer a premature pipe failure in a court of law will not install galvy inside.
                  Steel pipe is cold rolled. There is no seam and since it is not a casting, there is no chance of a sand hole either.

                  The reason why some codes don't allow galvy is because natural gas can be corrosive and react with the galvanized coating.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                    Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                    By the way...I am a Florida certified 702 Fuel Gas Master. Only 17% of the people taking that test pass the first time. I passed the first time with a 93+%. I know my codes and have dealt with enough code in his head inspectors to know I am using it correctly.

                    I also have built 3 gas training facilities and assist training for the fire departments for how to deal with gas fires.
                    so you know the code, great. it's the interpretation of the code that you are not understanding. so next you're going to say propress g/ gas is not legal since the o-ring will melt under 1500 degrees.

                    same goes with the aluminum flex connectors of years ago and the aluminum pilot tubes.

                    lets start to use industry standard and not try to dissect every word.

                    if your right, then i guess i will lose sleep on the miles of piping that i've installed with gal pipe, nipples and fittings. while i'm not sleeping, mark and adam will be up late too thinking what have we done

                    i guess the 100+ years the 3 of us have doesn't mean anything now

                    now i need to catch up on my sleep, it's going to be a long, long night worrying about my gas

                    joey and the rest of the forum now knows i have bad gas

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                      Steel pipe is cold rolled. There is no seam and since it is not a casting, there is no chance of a sand hole either.

                      The reason why some codes don't allow galvy is because natural gas can be corrosive and react with the galvanized coating.
                      Steel pipe is available in both seamless and welded pipe. The sand casting holes would be in the cast fittings rather than the pipe. Our codes (both International & Uniform) permit using galvanized piping on gas.

                      Mark
                      Last edited by ToUtahNow; 05-23-2010, 05:58 PM.
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                        so you know the code, great. it's the interpretation of the code that you are not understanding. so next you're going to say propress g/ gas is not legal since the o-ring will melt under 1500 degrees.

                        same goes with the aluminum flex connectors of years ago and the aluminum pilot tubes.

                        lets start to use industry standard and not try to dissect every word.

                        if your right, then i guess i will lose sleep on the miles of piping that i've installed with gal pipe, nipples and fittings. while i'm not sleeping, mark and adam will be up late too thinking what have we done

                        i guess the 100+ years the 3 of us have doesn't mean anything now

                        now i need to catch up on my sleep, it's going to be a long, long night worrying about my gas

                        joey and the rest of the forum now knows i have bad gas

                        rick.
                        Sorry butt, Joey already knew you had bad gas and she already told the rest of the forum.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          Steel pipe is available in both seamless and welded pipe. The sand casting holes would be in the cast fittings rather than the pipe. Our codes (both International & Uniform) permit using galvanized piping on gas.

                          Mark
                          Up here the gas utility forbids galvanized and will not set the meter if there is any in the system
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            Up here the gas utility forbids galvanized and will not set the meter if there is any in the system
                            I wonder if you have really dirty or corrosive gas? Our is clean and dry.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Black or Galvy Gas Pipe?

                              I sure trust Peter Hemp [ plumbing a House,Taunton press ] .Because of sand casting holes in imported black iron fittings,He recommends Galvy fittings and black Iron pipe inside. I do that. How do You feel about CSST [ GAS TITE,WARD FLEX] Wall is only .0008 " ?
                              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                              Comment

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