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Propress vs. soldering

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  • Propress vs. soldering

    We're building a new 4000 sq. ft. house with copper piping for domestic water supply. My understanding is that the Propress system for joining copper piping depends on a rubber seal. How can one be confident that that will hold up long term as compared with the tried and tested traditional soldering method?

    About how much more would it cost to use soldering instead of Propress in a house of this size with 4 1/2 bathrooms?

  • #2
    Re: Propress vs. soldering

    It relies upon an EPDM seal. NOT a rubber seal.

    The second question cannot be answered based upon the information you give.

    A ProPress system and a solder system can be warranted for 50 years. Equally warranted.

    Lifetime house, I'd pay to have soldered Type L copper.

    Good luck.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Propress vs. soldering

      The pro-press system is a good reliable system it has been used in the Library of congress and the pentagon and by many on this site and all over Europe. Here is my question to you Do you know the P.H. level of your water and are you on a Private Well or Public supply? The answer to these questions should be a big factor in what pipe you go with. Good luck

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      • #4
        Re: Propress vs. soldering

        see a propress 90 and a solder 90 up close.

        the propress 90 is a long radius and heavier than type k copper.

        the solder 90 is tight turn and is suppose to be type l, but i doubt it really is.

        the propress fittings are more expensive, but go in much faster and are great for circ systems due to the long radius.

        i can sell you all the solder fittings you need as i don't try to use them anymore. anyone interested in 1/2''- 6'' copper fittings in bulk

        rick.
        phoebe it is

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        • #5
          Re: Propress vs. soldering

          Originally posted by Clipper City Plumber View Post
          The pro-press system is a good reliable system it has been used in the Library of congress and the pentagon and by many on this site and all over Europe. Here is my question to you Do you know the P.H. level of your water and are you on a Private Well or Public supply? The answer to these questions should be a big factor in what pipe you go with. Good luck
          We are on public supply. We don't know the ph level, but I did find a water report online that mentioned the ph level being adjusted upward to reduce corrosive actions by adding sodium hydroxide. Also, we were told by the plumbing inspector that the water is less "aggressive" than it used to be. The town had experienced a rash of pin hole leaks in copper piping years ago and made the water supply less aggressive to correct the problem, apparently successfully. The problem disappeared. If this is not enough information, we can find out the ph level tomorrow.

          Thanks all for your helpful responses.
          Last edited by Novicenyc; 06-02-2010, 09:23 PM. Reason: additional info

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          • #6
            Re: Propress vs. soldering

            Then in my opinion you are good to go and if it were me I would use pro-press much better product than standard copper fittings. As Rick has said the fittings are thicker . I used to have a guy that I would go to for pin hole leaks as his ph level was 5.5 and he would get a leak about 2 times a year and the leaks were always in the fittings never in the copper . As a service plumber you learn to cut the copper piping that is on well systems very carefully so you don't crush the piping alot of times it is paper thin and a 2 foot repair can turn into 5 feet and maybe a couple fittings. When I would cut in to his pipe however it was like cutting into new pipe and that is because it was type "k" this also why the leaks were always in the fittings and not the pipe and Viega makes all of its copper fittings to "k" or better thickness so I have no doubt that they will hold up.

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            • #7
              Re: Propress vs. soldering

              Soldered type L. Can't see going any other way.
              Buy cheap, buy twice.

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              • #8
                Re: Propress vs. soldering

                You are going to find about a 50/50 split on the opinions here.

                I say solder type L copper, but I have very little experience with ProPress myself.

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                • #9
                  Re: Propress vs. soldering

                  [QUOTE=JCsPlumbing;299200]It relies upon an EPDM seal. NOT a rubber seal.

                  Then what is the rubber o-ring for ?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Propress vs. soldering

                    google epdm. it's "ethylene propylene diene Monomer". now that that's clear, it's is a synthetic rubber. breid..............

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                    • #11
                      Re: Propress vs. soldering

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post

                      i can sell you all the solder fittings you need as i don't try to use them anymore. anyone interested in 1/2''- 6'' copper fittings in bulk

                      rick.
                      I wish I had thought of you on Saturday night when a friend called from a very remote job begging for a 3"90

                      I'd offer to but them, but I seldom go over 1 1/4", and almost never over 2"

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                      • #12
                        Re: Propress vs. soldering

                        In propress, does the water running through the pipes flow over the epdm ring?

                        I've found some helpful youtube videos on propress and solder fittings. Saw one that seemed like it would cut down on soldering time quite a bit. It used a fitting with the solder already inside it. Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yigt3czOIk&feature=fvw. Has anyone tried it?

                        Also, while the answer may seem obvious, for those of you who are in the Solder camp, can you elaborate on why?


                        Thanks

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Propress vs. soldering

                          Originally posted by Novicenyc View Post
                          In propress, does the water running through the pipes flow over the epdm ring?

                          I've found some helpful youtube videos on propress and solder fittings. Saw one that seemed like it would cut down on soldering time quite a bit. It used a fitting with the solder already inside it. Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yigt3czOIk&feature=fvw. Has anyone tried it?

                          Also, while the answer may seem obvious, for those of you who are in the Solder camp, can you elaborate on why?


                          Thanks

                          Now that was a very good You Tube clip about how to solder by a builder.
                          Any idiot would make it look easy in the middle of the room, the real talent is to be able to do it on the job and in some cases standing on your head.
                          In Australia those fittings were banned thirty years ago due to high levels of lead
                          My understanding is it that propress gives you a 25 year warranty on the product.
                          I would suggest that you were in the right line of work should the fittings fail early.
                          Why don't you ask the plumber doing the job what he recommends for the area that you are building in.

                          Simon

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Propress vs. soldering

                            Originally posted by Novicenyc View Post
                            In propress, does the water running through the pipes flow over the epdm ring?


                            Thanks
                            the epdm seal is not subjected to flow. it's a seal and water is barely in contact with it. as the fitting gets crimped the seal is compressed tight against the walls of the pipe and grove of the fitting.

                            please keep in mind that this system has been in the usa for over 10 years now and europe for more than 20.

                            just for kicks, i might remove the seals from a sample of fittings and crimp them. then hook it up to a test bench and pressurize it. it would be interesting to see how much it can leak once it's crimped.

                            of course i'll take photos.

                            give me a week to play with it.

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Propress vs. soldering

                              Novice,

                              You are in New York? I'm in Westchester but do a lot of work in the Bronx and Manhattan and I'd say the majority of the plumbers I know use solder. Basically both will be great for your needs and they seem to be just about equal. I would get a couple of well known plumbers in to do estimates and ask them what they choose. Pro Press isn't a shark-bite style, do it yourself-er plumbing solution. Both will be expensive and the more important part is that you have confidence and a good rapport with the plumber, because either system will last a very long time when installed properly.

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