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can I add a zone like this?

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  • can I add a zone like this?

    Please refer to the diagram attached to see my existing gas heating layout and options for my plan.

    I am thinking about add one more zone to include more heated spaces.

    Can you guys tell me "Option 1" is valid or not? how about "Option 2"? or both of them are not valid. your suggestion?

    thanks,
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: can I add a zone like this?

    why are you doing this? i would avoid option #1. #2 maybe, we need to know more. breid..................

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    • #3
      Re: can I add a zone like this?

      Originally posted by breid1903 View Post
      why are you doing this? i would avoid option #1. #2 maybe, we need to know more. breid..................
      There are few places have no hot water heating during the winter. Plan to use hot water to heat these spaces and hope can be controlled in a sparated zone.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: can I add a zone like this?

        i apologize. i should have mentioned www.heatinghelp.com. click on "ask questions", the wall. breid.................

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: can I add a zone like this?

          Existing system as shown is wrong and so are the options. You have a single pump T system. How many thermostats do you have? Are they zone valved?

          The answer can be very simple. What size is the baseboards 1/2 or 3/4?
          What is the brand and model of the system pump?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: can I add a zone like this?

            Kevin - I think you may be misreading the diagram. I took those pictures to be radiators and not baseboards, so a 1 pipe system is what I see for those radiators.

            If they are baseboards..I agree with what you say.

            * EDIT - the diagram does say Baseboard on it, and I missed that the first time. I don't like any of the set ups in any of the diagrams if that is indeed the case.

            I'm a fan of having a manifold and feed and return for each zone.
            Last edited by Flux; 07-16-2010, 12:55 AM.

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            • #7
              Re: can I add a zone like this?

              What you have is a two pipe, reverse return set up. The main piping was designed to handle the current load. Leave it alone. If you want to add a zone then tap off at the boiler and go with a straight loop for the new zone. You will need to add a circulator, thermostat and a relay. www.taco-hvac.com will have piping, valving and control schematics you can use.
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Re: can I add a zone like this?

                Not to hijack the thread, but NH are you a zone valve fan or do you like doing them with circulators? We personally like using zone valves. Have you used Grundfos circulators before? if so, how do you like them, and do you like them over Taco?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: can I add a zone like this?

                  Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                  What you have is a two pipe, reverse return set up. The main piping was designed to handle the current load. Leave it alone. If you want to add a zone then tap off at the boiler and go with a straight loop for the new zone. You will need to add a circulator, thermostat and a relay. www.taco-hvac.com will have piping, valving and control schematics you can use.
                  Not even close, a 2-pipe reverse return system has the first rad on the supply is the last on the return, first on return is the last on the supply.
                  As drawn, closest rad is first on return and supply. This system is a common 2-pipe direct return.
                  To be a reverse return, that extra header pipe is missing.

                  Reverse return systems are the nuts for balance of flow amongst rads.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: can I add a zone like this?

                    Can anybody tell me why the supply is directly connected to the return at the end (away from the boiler)?

                    I remembered it was opened before. And the plumber connected them together when he did the oil to gas conversion for us last year.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: can I add a zone like this?

                      Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                      Existing system as shown is wrong and so are the options. You have a single pump T system. How many thermostats do you have? Are they zone valved?

                      The answer can be very simple. What size is the baseboards 1/2 or 3/4?
                      What is the brand and model of the system pump?
                      Kevin,

                      Explain how it is wrong. This is nothing other than a crude drawing of primary/secondary boiler piping. We don't know the boiler and it's circumstances but this is a common system when the boiler flow requirements and head pressure differs from system flow/head. Baseboard, radiators, fan coils or convectors, makes no difference, this was a common install practice of piping.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: can I add a zone like this?

                        Originally posted by Lee H View Post
                        Not even close, a 2-pipe reverse return system has the first rad on the supply is the last on the return, first on return is the last on the supply.
                        As drawn, closest rad is first on return and supply. This system is a common 2-pipe direct return.
                        To be a reverse return, that extra header pipe is missing.

                        Reverse return systems are the nuts for balance of flow amongst rads.
                        Yep, you're right, I didn't look at it close enough, Anyhoo, I stand by my recommendation.

                        Circulators vs Zone valves. Went zone valves for many years and now I'm pretty much all circulators again. Mostly because I really like Wilo circs and the flexibility you get with VFD pumps
                        Last edited by NHMaster3015; 07-16-2010, 11:52 PM.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: can I add a zone like this?

                          Because the new boiler is probably low ( or lower ) mass than the old one and you need to maintain return water temperature to keep the boiler from condensing.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: can I add a zone like this?

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            Yep, you're right, I didn't look at it close enough, Anyhoo, I stand by my recommendation.

                            Circulators vs Zone valves. Went zone valves for many years and now I'm pretty much all circulators again. Mostly because I really like Wilo circs and the flexibility you get with VFD pumps
                            Agreed!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: can I add a zone like this?

                              Originally posted by Lee H View Post
                              Kevin,

                              Explain how it is wrong. This is nothing other than a crude drawing of primary/secondary boiler piping. We don't know the boiler and it's circumstances but this is a common system when the boiler flow requirements and head pressure differs from system flow/head. Baseboard, radiators, fan coils or convectors, makes no difference, this was a common install practice of piping.
                              All three diagrams are wrong. I see the primary/secondary situation and you must still be the water. Water has no desire to jump a tee, feed the baseboard properly, and return. It would much rather skip the heating element and go back to the boiler.

                              At the end of the supply line run a pressure differential bypass valve needs to be added. This will provide the resistance needed for the system to work properly. As for the remainder of the layout I don't know current pump or pipe size. I don't know baseboard size in order to establish a gpm flow. All those questions need answers to help more.

                              From the diagrams you need one properly sized pump on the secondary loop and a pressure bypass. Then adding a loop is nothing more than a T-stat, zone valve, pipe from supply to return, use a boiler tee with plug/cap on the return side of the new loop for air discharge, and adjustment of the pressure bypass.

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