Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Best way to modify this drain? (pics included)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Best way to modify this drain? (pics included)

    Hi. I had to replace part of a subfloor due to water damage (cracked bathtub) and decided to do a little remodeling since I had to rip everything out anyways. I'll be installing a bigger tub then was previously there and I need to move the toilet over about 1 foot. The problem is that the bathtub drain is directly in the way. The only thing I know about the drainage system is what you see in the pics.

    A friend of mine who works construction asked a plumber at one of his job sites about it and was told the following:

    for the toilet:
    - cut the toilet drain, install a 90degree elbow
    - use a straight piece of whatever length is need
    - use 45degree elbow connecting to a 45degree toilet drain flange (which would be rotated to drain to the left)

    for the bathtub drain:
    - cut the long pipe farther back towards the wall so the modifications will clear the new toilet drain and install a 45degree elbow (pointed downward)
    - install a short piece of straight pipe to bring the tub drain below the toilet drain
    - install a 45degree elbow to make the pipe level
    - install a straight pipe of whatever length is needed to clear the toilet drain
    - install another 45degree elbow going up, short piece, and 45degree elbow to bring the pipe back to its original position

    Someone else offered a different solution which was to not touch the bathtub drain at all and instead just modify the toilet drain with a few 90degree elbows and straight pieces that bring the pipe below the bathrub drain, then over and directly below and connected to a straight toilet flange.

    My concerns are that I'm not overly complicating things, and that the toilet will still drain properly. I was told that installing a sink-trap-like setup on a toilet was a very bad idea and to avoid solution #2 completely.

    Since I don't have the money to pay a professional to do the work, I'm hoping to at least get some good advice as to the best way to do this. Any help is greatly appreciated!
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: Best way to modify this drain? (pics included)

    cut pipe on vertical riser to access wye and santee or right hand wisconson cant tell with insulation start there and take pics.no 90 on w/c arm plus u need test t.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Best way to modify this drain? (pics included)

      remove insulation from wall cavity where pipes disappear and post another pic showing what goes on in the wall.

      i cant be sure from your pics but it looks like the toilet drain 90's right in the wall and then picks up the shower drain almost immediately.



      I'm looking at your pics and thinking you want to toilet a foot to the right in pic 3...correct?

      if so, it looks like there is room to put it on the other side of the shower line, wye the shower into it, and then take it back to the wall and tie into what is there (I'm assuming the main line bends right, not down, at the wall).

      if it bends down at the wall, thats ok too; then whack the stack and put it back together with the toilet line fitting pointed at your spot, whack out the shower line, and tie it back in to the toilet line before it goes in the wall.

      regardless, if the shower line is in the way, just cut it out, cap off the old in the wall, and tie the shower back into the new toilet line.
      Last edited by Ace Sewer; 08-09-2010, 06:44 PM.
      This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Best way to modify this drain? (pics included)

        Originally posted by Ace Sewer View Post
        remove insulation from wall cavity where pipes disappear and post another pic showing what goes on in the wall.

        i cant be sure from your pics but it looks like the toilet drain 90's right in the wall and then picks up the shower drain almost immediately.

        I'm looking at your pics and thinking you want to toilet a foot to the right in pic 3...correct?
        Yes, I need to move the toilet drain to the right approx. 1ft - on the other side of the tub drain.

        So I see a pipe connected to the toilet drain which goes up. I'm guessing this is where the sinks tap in(?), assuming they do.

        After looking at the full tub drain path, I see there's another pipe tapped in (which then goes upwards) just a couple feet from the actual tub drain start point. I assume this is a vent of some sort since there's nothing up from there but the roof. Another pipe (not pictured) coming up from the floor also taps into that "vent" pipe as well. Is there a way to be sure that blocking off the tub drain at the wall and connecting it to the toilet drain is safe considering that pipe seems to tap into a vent on the tub side of the bathroom? Maybe it should be a wye but with feeds on both sides so the tub side and the wall side can tap into the toilet drain instead of just the tub side and then capping off the wall side?

        I really appreciate the help & advice! It feels like I'm close to knowing the best way to do this. Hopefully the extra pics will help.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by seattle; 08-09-2010, 08:00 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Best way to modify this drain? (pics included)

          I'm going to refer to your pics as pic1...pic6, 1-3 from the first post, 4-6 from the second.

          I cannot seem to orient pic 6 with the rest.

          but looking at pics 1-5;

          I see the toilet line heading to the wall a short distance away, then diving down, with a 2" vent going up.

          I see the 2" tub drain just to the right of it, parallel to it, also heading to the wall and then diving down, presumably to wye into the toilet stack soon thereafter, though possibly continuing on its own and joining at ground level.

          This appears to be on an upper floor, and with no finished living space above it.

          pic 6 - I see the tub drain, I see a vent going up, I'm not sure how this orients with the others.

          but it appears to me that there is no venting going on with the tub drain at the point where it goes into the wall next to the toilet line and dives down, and it is vented prior to that.

          I'd say cut the toilet drain line in the vertical, and its 2" vent also in the vertical, and glue in a new fitting just like the one you've got now, but rotated 45 degrees or so, whatever you need to point it at the spot where you want the toilet to be.

          and

          in the (new) horizontal run of the toilet line, between the flange and the stack in the wall, install a wye to tie in the tub drain.

          you may need to raise the tub drain line just a bit (or lower the toilet line, or both, it looks like you've got room for a little of both); you want it to fall into the bigger line at 45 degrees or so, like at 10:30 on a clock, not just poke in the side flat.

          - keeps 2" vent above toilet line intact
          - keeps existing venting on tub drain intact
          - no vent or anything else coming into top of 2" 90 at wall, so I doubt it is an issue to just cut that off and glue a cap on... it might go down on it's own and pick up other fixtures along the way, and if it does, you'll be capping off their (wet) vent. better might be to bring it up and tie it into the 2" going up from the toilet line to preserve any venting it might be doing for other fixtures lower down. that would eliminate the wet vent situation it would be now as well.
          Last edited by Ace Sewer; 08-09-2010, 10:20 PM.
          This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Best way to modify this drain? (pics included)

            Originally posted by Ace Sewer View Post
            I'm going to refer to your pics as pic1...pic6, 1-3 from the first post, 4-6 from the second.

            I cannot seem to orient pic 6 with the rest.
            Basically the 2" tub drain runs parallel to the joists as you see in the other pics, and then turns 90 towards the drain sticking up from the floor, which is visible in pic 6. In between that 90 turn and the tub trap theres a fitting that lets the pipe running up the wall to tap into it. Looks like we don't really need to worry about any of that though.

            but looking at pics 1-5;

            I see the toilet line heading to the wall a short distance away, then diving down, with a 2" vent going up.

            I see the 2" tub drain just to the right of it, parallel to it, also heading to the wall and then diving down, presumably to wye into the toilet stack soon thereafter, though possibly continuing on its own and joining at ground level.

            This appears to be on an upper floor, and with no finished living space above it.
            Yes exactly. I should have mentioned that in my original post. The bathroom I'm working on is in the SW corner of the house, 2nd floor. No 3rd floor above, and a bedroom below on the 1st floor.

            pic 6 - I see the tub drain, I see a vent going up, I'm not sure how this orients with the others.

            but it appears to me that there is no venting going on with the tub drain at the point where it goes into the wall next to the toilet line and dives down, and it is vented prior to that.

            I'd say cut the toilet drain line in the vertical, and its 2" vent also in the vertical, and glue in a new fitting just like the one you've got now, but rotated 45 degrees or so, whatever you need to point it at the spot where you want the toilet to be.
            Gotcha, so in the neighborhood of 45 degrees pointing towards the new toilet position rather then running parallel to the joists as it is now. And avoiding use of any 90 degree pieces there. I've read that it's very bad to use 90 degree pieces on a horizontal toilet run, is this true?

            and

            in the (new) horizontal run of the toilet line, between the flange and the stack in the wall, install a wye to tie in the tub drain.

            you may need to raise the tub drain line just a bit (or lower the toilet line, or both, it looks like you've got room for a little of both); you want it to fall into the bigger line at 45 degrees or so, like at 10:30 on a clock, not just poke in the side flat.
            Ok. Couple questions here. What kind of toilet flange would you recommend using? I'm guessing one that comes down at an angle rather then straight down(?).

            I do have some play of a few inches both above and below the existing pipes. Would my first choice be to just lower the toilet fitting at the wall and try to keep the tub drain at the same level? If I need to raise the tub drain piping, would I need to raise the whole thing all the way to the tub trap or is it ok to just use some fittings to raise it up just before the new wye it will tap in to? I definitely wouldn't think sending toilet drainage uphill anywhere is a good idea but maybe doing so is ok for tub/sink drains?

            - keeps 2" vent above toilet line intact
            - keeps existing venting on tub drain intact
            - no vent or anything else coming into top of 2" 90 at wall, so I doubt it is an issue to just cut that off and glue a cap on... it might go down on it's own and pick up other fixtures along the way, and if it does, you'll be capping off their (wet) vent. better might be to bring it up and tie it into the 2" going up from the toilet line to preserve any venting it might be doing for other fixtures lower down. that would eliminate the wet vent situation it would be now as well.
            I feel like for the price of an extra fitting and a little bit of pipe, it's better safe then sorry so I'll opt to tap into the 2" going up from the toilet line as you suggested. I'll probably have to cut out the drywall there anyways to move the water supply lines for the new toilet & sink positions.

            Another question I've thought of is when I cut the toilet/2" fitting at the wall to replace it with the same but with the toilet line pointing towards the new toilet position, what if the cut bring the new fitting too low so that the floor prevents it from fitting properly? In this case to bring the pipe back up higher, would you cut the old fitting out, then use a a piece of straight pipe and glue it to the cut with a coupling covering the seam? I'm hoping this isn't an issue but just trying to cover all my bases here.

            Thanks!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Best way to modify this drain? (pics included)

              I've read that it's very bad to use 90 degree pieces on a horizontal toilet run, is this true?

              Dunno; I have little knowledge of code as I do not do installs, but I see lines where it has been done, or something equivalent has been done fairly commonly. others here will be more qualified to comment. I chose to weigh in on your post as no one else was doing so and it seems pretty straightforward. The 90 in a horizontal question is a moot point for your purposes as you don't need to do it.


              What kind of toilet flange would you recommend using? I'm guessing one that comes down at an angle rather then straight down(?).

              No. I'd recommend a regular flange with a long sweep 90 at the bottom if you have room. I've not seen ones that exit on a 45, though I once saw ones where the oulet swiveled in a supply store for tight spots. You might consider something like that if you get tight on room, but it doesn't look like you will, and you want to move the toilet line down anyway, and keeping it simple and standard is always best.


              Would my first choice be to just lower the toilet fitting at the wall and try to keep the tub drain at the same level?

              Yes.


              If I need to raise the tub drain piping, would I need to raise the whole thing all the way to the tub trap or is it ok to just use some fittings to raise it up just before the new wye it will tap in to? I definitely wouldn't think sending toilet drainage uphill anywhere is a good idea but maybe doing so is ok for tub/sink drains?

              Raise it all up. It must all be downhill the whole run. 1/4" drop per 1 foot of run. You can raise the tub some if you have to by setting it up on something. Be aware if you do that, especially if it is a plastic tub, that you need to think about supporting it's weight with water in it. Just the edges is not enough; an iron tub would do ok probably, a plastic one will creak and move on you and eventually crack, and it's just as easy to run sheets of something solid under it to support it. Also, just to state what might not be obvious, no cutting out joists to make room for things. Be glad you've just got the pipe in the way and not a joist where you want the toilet to sit.


              Another question I've thought of is when I cut the toilet/2" fitting at the wall to replace it with the same but with the toilet line pointing towards the new toilet position, what if the cut bring the new fitting too low so that the floor prevents it from fitting properly? In this case to bring the pipe back up higher, would you cut the old fitting out, then use a a piece of straight pipe and glue it to the cut with a coupling covering the seam? I'm hoping this isn't an issue but just trying to cover all my bases here.

              Go buy a new fitting. Look at it and see how much the fitting is going to sink onto the pipe when you glue it on. You are going to lower the fitting by (at least) that much when you cut out the old and glue in the new. If you need to drop the fitting that much or more, great, you're golden, just make your cut where you need to to put the fitting at the right height. If it's going to be too much, that sucks. Now you have to cut it off a few inches lower, to give you enough room to glue in a coupling and some vertical to bring it back up to where you can cut it off at the right height. If you get lucky/inventive (like an internal cutter, maybe on an extension), you can do all this from the bathroom, but you may need to take out some drywall in the bedroom below to get access.

              Recommend you find a way to figure out what the 2" going down is doing; if it's just wyeing into the toilet stack then you can cap it off and forget about it, which will make reassembling the thing easier. You might be able to see with a mirror and a flashlight, or by taking out some of the drywall there so you can get your head in, or you might just see framing. When you cut out the fitting, you can probably look down the vertical of the toilet line with a flashlight and use a hose to run water into the tub drain and see if it's joining the toilet line, and where, and can tell if anything else joins the 2" first by running water in all your other fixtures.
              Last edited by Ace Sewer; 08-10-2010, 06:39 PM.
              This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

              Comment

              Working...
              X