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  • 185' to the sewer main....

    Customer built a new shop and wants me to run sewer and water to it. My worry is that it will be such a low usage line, probably only a stool and sink that will utilize it. Will 3'' sewer alleviate some of the problem? I'm just worried that there wont be enough waves to get the surfboards all the way out to the main.... Any other ideas? I dipped the manhole and its about 8' to the bottom, 7' ish to the top of the main I will tie into.
    185' @ 1/4''/foot is about 4 feet so I should have plenty of fall to work with....Can I go a little flatter? Thanks, Paul

  • #2
    Re: 185' to the sewer main....

    what's code there? we can run 1/8" here. breid................

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 185' to the sewer main....

      Last two CE classes I attended, the theory of hydraulic gradient had been abandonded. And I'm not familiar with an area that will let you run a sewer in 3".

      What type of shop is it? You might be surprised how much water gets turned over.


      J.C.

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      • #4
        Re: 185' to the sewer main....

        Seems like a good place to install a forced main.

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        • #5
          Re: 185' to the sewer main....

          Put the building on an ejector pump. Size the pit bigger than normal to give the unit a bit more run time to wash the main. I have seen many buildings on a slab with longer than normal mains on an ejector pump even though a gravity sewer can be installed.
          Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
          A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
          Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
          Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 185' to the sewer main....

            Breid.... UPC is in effect statewide with local goverments able to adopt IPC... This call came on Saturday and I wasnt able to get in touch with anyone from the water/sewer crew to see what they use. I was just wondering if the smaller ID of the 3'' would help keep the liquids and solids from separating....


            JC, the shop will basically just be cold storage with a stool and sink so I'm still pretty worried about the low flow problem.... Owner is in construction so nobody will be around during the daytime.

            Plumberscrack, I've never had to go out this far on a sewer, most of them range out to about 60' from house to main. In this instance the new building is on a separate lot behind the house and the house has a 120' lot... Long ways back there but it is a straight shot!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 185' to the sewer main....

              Originally posted by Williams Ex Co View Post
              Breid.... UPC is in effect statewide with local goverments able to adopt IPC... This call came on Saturday and I wasnt able to get in touch with anyone from the water/sewer crew to see what they use. I was just wondering if the smaller ID of the 3'' would help keep the liquids and solids from separating....


              JC, the shop will basically just be cold storage with a stool and sink so I'm still pretty worried about the low flow problem.... Owner is in construction so nobody will be around during the daytime.

              Plumberscrack, I've never had to go out this far on a sewer, most of them range out to about 60' from house to main. In this instance the new building is on a separate lot behind the house and the house has a 120' lot... Long ways back there but it is a straight shot!
              I like Rats Idea but If not then I would not undersize the main that will not help anything if atall it will help clog quicer run line at 1/8" pitch to help with water not running faster then the brown trout and pleeeeeeeease put in a few C/O for rodding in future as It will need to be done being that long 1 C/O at building as it exits one 75' down the line and one at 150' so around every 75'
              Last edited by post plumber; 10-17-2010, 09:17 PM.
              SMELLS LIKE $$$$$$ TO ME

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 185' to the sewer main....

                Clean outs at every 50' or change of direction.
                Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 185' to the sewer main....

                  Looks like this will have to be a forced main.... Ive never done one so my 1st question refers to the c/o's.... Must they be sealed airtight at ground level so as not to lose the pressure of the pump? Will a screw in cap seal well enough or does it need to be like a fernco cap with clamp? Thanks!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 185' to the sewer main....

                    What does "Force Main" mean where you are? Here I immediately think of large pumping stations. And it always has to have the stamp.

                    With a sink and a toilet, seems he could just have a receptor with a pump. Maybe not even technically a grinder. (May be what Ratz is talking about too.)

                    Is this the same as a what you see as a "Force Main" where you are located?

                    Thanks.


                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 185' to the sewer main....

                      JC... The only main here (to my knowlege) that has any pressure (force) goes from the State Park into the nearest towns treatment facility... Locally it is refered to as the 'pressured main' . Ive never had to do any excavating around it so I got 'nuthin' when it comes to experience with it. Maybe I'm confusing pressure and force? I do plenty of pump style septic systems where the effluent is pumped up to the D box and laterals but have never had to move both liquids and solids over a long distance. The pit and grinder pump to me turns it into a pressured line out to the city main... Is that incorrect? Maybe there is a different bit of terminology for it? Thanks, Paul

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 185' to the sewer main....

                        Originally posted by Williams Ex Co View Post
                        Customer built a new shop and wants me to run sewer and water to it. My worry is that it will be such a low usage line, probably only a stool and sink that will utilize it. Will 3'' sewer alleviate some of the problem? I'm just worried that there wont be enough waves to get the surfboards all the way out to the main.... Any other ideas? I dipped the manhole and its about 8' to the bottom, 7' ish to the top of the main I will tie into.
                        185' @ 1/4''/foot is about 4 feet so I should have plenty of fall to work with....Can I go a little flatter? Thanks, Paul
                        I don't know about Iowa, but in Minnesota the minimum sewer dia is 4".

                        Get as much pitch on that sewer as you can! Try and maintain a constant rate of pitch and use a smooth pipe like PVC. I would encourage the customer to run extra water... Wash their hands very thoroughly after using the commode. Maybe flush twice when a surfboard is in the curl. Not suggesting anything... but I've noticed that when the right (or wrong as the case may be) flapper is installed in a tank, the tank uses more water, and the bowl will actually get a 2nd weaker flush. Of course, I always correct that situation.

                        I read a few months back in PM Magazine that a "pulse" from a 1.6 gpf toilet is good for about 80'. The "pulse" from a 3.5 gallon toilet was reported to be good for about 250 feet if I recall correctly) After that the water spreads out too much and the surfboards act like beached whales.

                        I experienced this problem 1st hand on a long soil pipe run in a building with 4" SV soil pipe. I installed a 1.6 gpf toilet, and lav on the end of an existing 150' run, (which no longer had other plumbing on it.) I checked the entire length and it had 1/8" pitch.

                        May your surfboards only see big waves.
                        Time flies like an arrow.

                        Fruit flies like a banana.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 185' to the sewer main....

                          I just saw Sewer Ratz sewage ejector with an oversized pit suggestion and think it's a good idea. If cost is an issue for the customer you could put in a pit and grinder pump only if the sewer actually has problems backing up. Which you would likely find out in a few months.
                          Time flies like an arrow.

                          Fruit flies like a banana.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 185' to the sewer main....

                            plastic piping installed properly is your only hope of getting gravity to work. 3'' would require 1/4'' and 4'' can be 1/8'' but out here would not be allowed if you have the depth. plus plastic is almost impossible to keep 1/8'' grade.

                            i know from first hand experience that 185' on a sink and toilet is a stoppage waiting to happen. paper and waste will stop and dry out. this will create the spot for the next flush to hang up on.

                            either a large water main/ 1'' with an indirect air gap funnel drain to use to flush out the line, or as mentioned a sewer ejector to help push the waste down stream.

                            i have 2 newer buildings in beverly hills with a 3 story stack of powder rooms/ toilet and sink. one runs over 80' and the other around 50'. the no hub pipe is properly graded and hung overhead in the parking garage. i've camered the line and there are no obstructions or flat spots. the system does plug up as the toilet and sink don't have any other fixtures to help flush out the line.

                            after much discussion and training to the homeowners, they've managed to keep the line flowing properly.

                            double flushing and keeping the sink running during the process will keep the line flowing.

                            i also suggest the cleanouts and a downstream reverse c/o to allow a good and simple jetting if necessary. also a video inspection of the line when finished to check for low spots.

                            plastic piping is a slick product, but also a flexible product that will dip if not properly installed and backfilled.

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 185' to the sewer main....

                              Ratz's point is to give it a lot of water, not just 1.6 gal, all at once; collect many flushes in a pit then send them out all at once. I like the idea, but it does trade a pack of clogging issues for a pack of pump issues. Do a true grinder for a (more) trouble free installation.

                              I like the idea from a freezing problem standpoint as well. I don't know how many frozens you see in IA, but here they are rampant because of the cold winters and the many seconds homes that see little use. A trickle from a condensate drip line or a leaking toilet flapper will often cause a frozen service in an unoccupied house. pumping it all out at once removes the trickle.

                              It wouldn't really be a force main; lay it on a gravity pitch and the pump discharge rolls into it. The only force main would be the pump discharge piping until it gets to the gravity line out. regular threaded c/o caps will be fine.
                              This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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