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  • setting closet flange over a lead bend

    what's the consensus on the best way to do this? my powder room remodel was roughed in some time ago. there is a lead bend extending 14" above the finished floor. it is attached to a CI waste line with a SS banded coupling. the finished floor is ceramic tile with space left by the tile setter to attach the closet flange to the subfloor. a plumber suggested removing all but 1.25" of the lead bend that extends above the floor. place the closet flange over the lead bend and secure same to the subfloor. using a smooth faced hammer, gently, being careful not to tear the lead, tap the lead onto the closet flange, effectively "flaring" the lead onto the closet flange. there is no need to join the lead and the closet flange using heat, as in brazing or sweating, or whatwever the correct technique is called. have i been advised correctly? thanks.
    there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

  • #2
    Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

    Why not just replace it from the ss band on.Then you will know its all good.If you have to take out a little drywall in the ceiling below for access so be it .I would rather patch a bit of drywall for a job done right.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

      Originally posted by FINER9998 View Post
      what's the consensus on the best way to do this? my powder room remodel was roughed in some time ago. there is a lead bend extending 14" above the finished floor. it is attached to a CI waste line with a SS banded coupling. the finished floor is ceramic tile with space left by the tile setter to attach the closet flange to the subfloor. a plumber suggested removing all but 1.25" of the lead bend that extends above the floor. place the closet flange over the lead bend and secure same to the subfloor. using a smooth faced hammer, gently, being careful not to tear the lead, tap the lead onto the closet flange, effectively "flaring" the lead onto the closet flange. there is no need to join the lead and the closet flange using heat, as in brazing or sweating, or whatwever the correct technique is called. have i been advised correctly? thanks.
      Bad Idea! I never like the "lets smash it in with a hammer" method. I don't ever like jimmy rig solutions. I would listen to pipes15217!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

        Originally posted by DanLawrence View Post
        Bad Idea! I never like the "lets smash it in with a hammer" method. I don't ever like jimmy rig solutions. I would listen to pipes15217!
        Peening the lead over or joining the lead to the flange with solder is not "jimmy rigging". It's a lost art and has been the way of doing things long before PVC and fernco's ever came out. To this day I still peen lead over a flange, and never have a leak in a preexisting condition.

        But, if the bathroom was mine...I would replace and get the lead out of there.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

          Originally posted by pipes15217 View Post
          Why not just replace it from the ss band on.Then you will know its all good.If you have to take out a little drywall in the ceiling below for access so be it .I would rather patch a bit of drywall for a job done right.
          I agree, replace it. It's not like there is THAT much to replace anyway.

          ....or maybe I didn't read that correctly and have no idea how much there is to be replaced, but either way, I'd get rid of the lead stuff and redo it.
          Ideal Plumbing

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

            pipes15217......unfortunately, this is a basement powder room. the banded coupling is underneath a platform on which the toilet sits as the soil pipe sits atop the basement floor on it's way out of the building. and replacing the lead brings up the issue of what to replace it with. no form of plastic is permitted in out municipality.

            Originally posted by Flux View Post
            Peening the lead over or joining the lead to the flange with solder is not "jimmy rigging". It's a lost art and has been the way of doing things long before PVC and fernco's ever came out. To this day I still peen lead over a flange, and never have a leak in a preexisting condition.

            But, if the bathroom was mine...I would replace and get the lead out of there.
            Flux....what length of lead did you leave above the brass closet flange to facilitate a secure, leakproof peened connection to the closet flange? 1" 1.5", 2", etc.? also, what tool and technique did you employ to remove the excess lead above the cut which would leave behind the lead to be peened? would a hacksaw do the trick? thanks.
            there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

              Originally posted by FINER9998 View Post
              Flux....what length of lead did you leave above the brass closet flange to facilitate a secure, leakproof peened connection to the closet flange? 1" 1.5", 2", etc.? also, what tool and technique did you employ to remove the excess lead above the cut which would leave behind the lead to be peened? would a hacksaw do the trick? thanks.
              It's very rare that I ever run into a situation in where I have an excess of lead to deal with. After I peen it over, if I feel as though I have some that needs to be trimmed, I'll heat it up and let it melt or lightly chisel it off.

              I peen lead over with a regular hammer, and do little bits at a time all the way around the flange. The key is NOT to go gangbusters like you're driving a 16 penny nail home.

              When I'm done, it's the ONLY time I will use a "horned" wax ring to set the toilet for added protection against leaks.

              Others might deal with it differently, but this is the way I was taught.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

                Originally posted by Flux View Post
                It's very rare that I ever run into a situation in where I have an excess of lead to deal with. After I peen it over, if I feel as though I have some that needs to be trimmed, I'll heat it up and let it melt or lightly chisel it off.

                I peen lead over with a regular hammer, and do little bits at a time all the way around the flange. The key is NOT to go gangbusters like you're driving a 16 penny nail home.

                When I'm done, it's the ONLY time I will use a "horned" wax ring to set the toilet for added protection against leaks.

                Others might deal with it differently, but this is the way I was taught.
                Flux is dead on with his practices. Same as mine

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

                  Flux i did this a lot in NY 21yrs ago and loved doing it ,i said that you were a plumber back then . i use to solder it it with 50/50 solder with a little heat .

                  i think i still have some 50/50 solder around
                  Charlie

                  My seek the peek fundraiser page
                  http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                  http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                  new work pictures 12/09
                  http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

                    Originally posted by Flux View Post
                    It's very rare that I ever run into a situation in where I have an excess of lead to deal with. After I peen it over, if I feel as though I have some that needs to be trimmed, I'll heat it up and let it melt or lightly chisel it off.

                    I peen lead over with a regular hammer, and do little bits at a time all the way around the flange. The key is NOT to go gangbusters like you're driving a 16 penny nail home.

                    When I'm done, it's the ONLY time I will use a "horned" wax ring to set the toilet for added protection against leaks.

                    Others might deal with it differently, but this is the way I was taught.

                    i ask about the amount of lead needed for effective peening and a cutting technique as the plumber who did the rough in left 12" of lead sticking up out of the flloor. i'm no professional plumber, but i suspect that's just a little to much to peen over. so, while i appreciate the very quiuck responses, i'm afraid i'm back to the quantity and technique question posted previously. thanks.
                    there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

                      Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                      Flux i did this a lot in NY 21yrs ago and loved doing it ,i said that you were a plumber back then . i use to solder it it with 50/50 solder with a little heat .

                      i think i still have some 50/50 solder around
                      I think I even have some 50/50 laying around still.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

                        Originally posted by FINER9998 View Post
                        i ask about the amount of lead needed for effective peening and a cutting technique as the plumber who did the rough in left 12" of lead sticking up out of the flloor. i'm no professional plumber, but i suspect that's just a little to much to peen over. so, while i appreciate the very quiuck responses, i'm afraid i'm back to the quantity and technique question posted previously. thanks.
                        I'm tired tonight, and absolutely missed that you said you had excess sticking through. If I was in that situation, I would lay the flange next to the lead, and cut it off "about an inch" above the top of the flange. You should have more than enough to complete the task.

                        I never had to cut lead with that much sticking through, so I'm sure a sawzall with a metal blade would work. Someone else will have to chime in on that one.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

                          Originally posted by Flux View Post
                          Peening the lead over or joining the lead to the flange with solder is not "jimmy rigging". It's a lost art and has been the way of doing things long before PVC and fernco's ever came out. To this day I still peen lead over a flange, and never have a leak in a preexisting condition.

                          But, if the bathroom was mine...I would replace and get the lead out of there.
                          I'm with Flux on this one. I would rip out the lead and go back to the stack installing PVC or new cast.

                          However, if you want to be old school, I would put down a brass flange that I pretinned, peen the lead over the flange and then solder the lead to the flange. It's been at least a decade since I did it, but I prefer a waterproof joint. Make sure you wash off all the flux after you do this.

                          If the lead bend is essentially new and unused I would consider doing the latter if you're good at soldering and enjoy a project.
                          Time flies like an arrow.

                          Fruit flies like a banana.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

                            you said this room was roughed is some time ago ,how long ago .
                            i did not they still used lead any more ,do they ?
                            Charlie

                            My seek the peek fundraiser page
                            http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                            http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                            new work pictures 12/09
                            http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: setting closet flange over a lead bend

                              geno gardner.. please see post 6 above. no form of plastic is permitted in my municipality for either potable water or DWV. the lead bend is joined by a SS banded coupling to CI and is under a tiled platform so it is absolutely inaccessible without tearing up the tile, subfloor, etc. since the best the plumbing inspector will allow is to replace the lead with CI, there's little to gain,as far as i can see, to changing what the plumber roughed in. i believe he went with the lead as we weren't absolutley sure what the finished flloor height would be. apparently, with the lead, i can easily cut it to the height needed.

                              HVAC HAWK...the rough in is probably 4-5 years old and the house is around 90 years old. the project has been interrupted many times. as the rough in plumber is a family friend, i suspect, as noted above, that he chose the lead because we weren't sure what the finished floor height would be.

                              i'm actually pretty enthusiastic about the lead. it seems to be a good material for this particular application and, if connected to the brass closet flange correctly, should see decades of problem free use.
                              there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

                              Comment

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