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  • #16
    Re: Flushometer help

    Originally posted by JJJAAAMMM View Post
    Okay, the one last question I have about the control stop...



    Is that a cap that is covering a screwdriver stop, or is that the actual turn wheel? I am a bit confused because in all the Sloan documentation I can find, there are no caps that look like that (even on the obsolete models).

    Thanks guys
    The very end, just in front of the larger hex is the cap. There is a screw stop inside.
    "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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    • #17
      Re: Flushometer help

      I was looking at replacement ideas and my toilet is roughed in at 13", the center line of the flush valve is at 3" off the wall and the spud is a full 5 inches away from the center of the valve. This would be a real pain in the *** DIY replacement for me, so that is why I just want to put it back as I found it after the new tile is down.

      I really want to keep this DIY and as little fuss as possible to avoid having to get approval from the building's board (never buy a NYC co-op!).

      My number one concern is a torrent of uncontrollable water, however once I test the control stop, and if I keep the flush valve on as a backup, i think I should be fine. But I think i'll find my super and ask him where the shutoff valve in the building is, just in case.

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      • #18
        Re: Flushometer help

        Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
        The very end, just in front of the larger hex is the cap. There is a screw stop inside.
        thanks! I was just examining it and came to that same conclusion. Too bad the previous owners clearly did not give two sh**s about the chrome, there are wrench teeth marks all over every connection point and the outside of the cap is stripped round. Grrrr.
        Last edited by JJJAAAMMM; 12-13-2010, 08:26 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: Flushometer help

          for anyone who sees this thread in the future for their own reference, here is the control stop with the cap off (thanks SlimTim)





          (Looks like the control stop is actually manufactured by Delany not Sloan, as well as the vacuum breaker.)

          Ha, now I am afraid to turn it off, I think I will wait 'til my next day off, so if something goes wrong I can get it fixed by a pro.
          Last edited by JJJAAAMMM; 12-14-2010, 12:43 AM.

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          • #20
            Re: Flushometer help

            Now come on after all the advice and time we have given you are you a man or a mouse it looks scary but grab that screw driver and turn it off show your wife or girl friend how manly you are put the grips on (A) and (B) remembering to put equal pressure on and let it rip.
            If you pull it off the wall then you can and explain to the apartments below where their new water falls has come from as you will always be the centre of every conversation at every party in the years to come.
            And then call a plumber who knows what he is doing and really that should have been your first call as we plumbers have spent many years learning our skills from trail and error and know your particular job can turn into a nightmare if you are not vary vary carefull and as you stated your just one apartment I would be checking to see if there are other isolating values if something goes rung as that you know it is always wise to have a back up plan.

            GOOD LUCK

            Tony

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            • #21
              Re: Flushometer help

              Go Tony, give him a lesson in respect.

              Jam you have to understand that we have invested a lifetime in our trade and as simple a task as you may think it can all go to trash and cost you a fortune.

              why are you so hestitant in calling a licensed plumber. If it is the money then work out the savings over the risk.

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              • #22
                Re: Flushometer help

                Would it make any sense to replace with a 1.6 gpf typical toilet with tank?
                Or would replumbing a supply line be too difficult and expensive?

                Either way, during the process you could still "flush" the bowl with a bucket of water drawn from the bathtub spigot.
                Last edited by Robert Gift; 12-14-2010, 06:55 AM.
                I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
                It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
                "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

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                • #23
                  Re: Flushometer help

                  Another but most important reason for possibly upgrading from a Gem to a Royal/Regal is that the Royal/Regal uses a circular neoprene diaphram which is easily changed when the flushometer requires a rebuid. The Gem, however, depends on having a smooth bore within the main body for the internals to perform its basic flush with it's badly designed seal. After years and years of use a Gem besides losing it's external finish will have irregularities within the bore and there comes a time when a cartridge rebuild will fail to perform it's basic job. Looking at the recent posted pictures I wouldn't be surprised if JJJAAAMMM's flushometer has Delaney/Zurn/Sloan parts during the life of all it's rebuilds.

                  The shut-off screw looks like it has seen more than it's share of rebuilds which is why if you have to seriously take into consideration replacing the whole flushometer as a complete kit if the shut-off fails to perform it's job, i.e., stopping the flow of water on the next rebuild. I've been very fortunate to have a good stock of new "complete" Royal/Regal flushometers bid and won via eBay. The key is to lurk and when you see a good deal bid on it with knowledge what it would cost at retail/kit. NYC has many co-op's, apartments, and private houses with flushometers because of rents for square footage.

                  Friend of mine lived in a co-op in Queens and when his flushometer failed he tossed a few bucks to the superintentdant of the co-op to "momentarily" shut off water while he swapped out his failed flushometer shutoff. If you have all your replacement parts ready you can swap out a broken flushometer shut-off in less than 5 minutes and from there take your time working from the shut-off to the spud after the superintendant restores water on back in the building. When in doubt?...ask! BTW, you would not believe how a $50 dollar bill motivates a building superintendant...been there, done that!

                  In a pinch you can even bid on urinal flushometers however you then have to swap out the urinal cartridge to a A-38 cartridge. Pictures tell me he needs a 1-1/4 tail piece coming off the flushometer which he will have to trim to size with his a Rigid model 20 tubing cutter.
                  Last edited by swong; 12-14-2010, 07:00 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Flushometer help

                    Robert Gift,

                    While your suggestion is viable if you take a look at his tiles, his bathroom is pretty current and the most cost effective way would be just a complete flushometer replacement. Besides, as I mentioned earlier NYC real estate rents are very cost prohibitive. If he has a full bath chances are moving the commode waste line in order to put a tank in is too darn expensive not to mention the nightmare getting permits in a co-op, sourcing a plumber, tile man, etc.

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                    • #25
                      Replace with tanked toilet?

                      Originally posted by swong View Post
                      Robert Gift,
                      While your suggestion is viable if you take a look at his tiles, his bathroom is pretty current and the most cost effective way would be just a complete flushometer replacement. Besides, as I mentioned earlier NYC real estate rents are very cost prohibitive. If he has a full bath chances are moving the commode waste line in order to put a tank in is too darn expensive not to mention the nightmare getting permits in a co-op, sourcing a plumber, tile man, etc.
                      Thanks. Did not see othereplies.
                      I did not mean to move the waste line. Just place a toilet on the existing line - I'm ASSuming they are the same distance from the wall. (Looks the same in the photo.)
                      Are there not toilets which have thinner tanks which allow the bowl outlet to be closer to the wall?
                      That may also allow clearance behind the tank for a supply line valve
                      and also my famous fart fan connection.
                      Last edited by Robert Gift; 12-14-2010, 03:57 PM.
                      I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
                      It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
                      "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Flushometer help

                        I understand while asking for advice on professional forum such as this, one must walk a fine line as to not inadvertently insult the pros (pertaining to the value of just hiring one in the first place).

                        The proper steps and costs of hiring a pro for this job makes it cost and time prohibitive. Getting the approval and and sign-offs from the co-op board is a nightmare. I am an owner, but the laws and rules of a Manhattan co-op are oppressive.

                        I also want to broaden my experience so I can become an informed consumer once I parlay apartment ownership into home ownership. Lot's more to go wrong and plenty of more opportunity to hire a pro.

                        Now I just hope that I can keep the new floor tile the same hight, because if not, I will be hiring a pro anyway to adjust the hight of the vacuum breaker tube so the thing fits back together.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Flushometer help

                          Perhaps you have mentioned this earlier but, what floor are you on?
                          If you are on the 1st floor of a 15 floor high rise then you are s.out of luck for replacing the stop.
                          "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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                          • #28
                            Re: Flushometer help

                            I am on floor 2 of 5.

                            And just for some perspective of what I am dealing with here, the board of the building is shady about approving only the contractors that they recommend, when I got a quote for my 5' x 7' bathroom he quoted me 20k. I am not cheap but I am also not a fool.
                            Last edited by JJJAAAMMM; 12-14-2010, 11:24 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Flushometer help

                              Originally posted by Cleanmen2 View Post
                              Go Tony, give him a lesson in respect.
                              No disrespect intended, but I don't think you guys understand my situation. I am allowed to do work myself as long as I don't go into my walls. However, once I bring in a pro I have to get the board of my building involved. As I mentioned before, when I went through the contractor that they are willing to approve he gave me a quote of $20,000 to replace the toilet and re-tile my tiny 35 sqft bathroom.

                              For that price I could fly you and Tony and your families out here for a NYC vacation to lend me a professional hand.

                              I may talk to the board president and feel her out a bit to see if I can just bring in a plumber to replace my set up, however, I want to retile my floor first, and in order to do that I have to disconnect this one first. So I am trying to get as much information from anyone who is willing to give it to me so I can make the right choice for my situation.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Flushometer help

                                I am sorry for my smart *** remarks but this is a pro`s job as you cannot imagine the things that can go wrong.
                                That $20,000 quote for what you discribed is ridicules you could pretty well get a new bathroom for that amount of money.

                                Tony

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