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  • #46
    Re: Flushometer help

    Okay I know this thread is dragging on, this will be my last question...

    After much more research it appears my setup is highly customized, the control stop and vacuum breaker tube are Delany parts, and the vacuum breaker tube looks to be modified to about 6.5" from their smallest 9" model with an el extension attached at (F) in my picture.

    Even if I hired a plumber to install a new valve and even a new toilet, my rough-in for the waste pipe and the supply line are inches off from standard, meaning any new install would also need to be customized.

    This leads me to think the cheaper option would be to take out my toilet, retile then re-install my current fixture. However, the stone tile I am using is 1/4" thicker than the current tile. This means that the flush tube will be 1/4" too low to match up to the rear spud once I (or a plumber) put the toilet back.

    How hard would it be for a plumber to modify (or recreate) my (G)-(F)-(E) config to raise it up 1/4"? I assume the vacuum breaker tube could be disconnected at (F) and cut back 1/4". Is the pipe threaded there, and would cutting 1/4" off it mean it would need to be rethreaded?

    And is this going to cost me $1000?

    Sorry for being a pain, but I just really would like to hear some feedback before talking to a plumber so I can have an informed conversation with him.

    Last edited by JJJAAAMMM; 12-17-2010, 11:15 PM.

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    • #47
      Re: Flushometer help

      Does thE to F pipe screw into the curved L ?
      Could you cut off 1/2 inch and rethread that vertical pipe?
      Then use the compression ring, if that is what it is, at E to adjust the height?
      Or is that not an adjustable pipe slides into pipe connection?
      Last edited by Robert Gift; 12-18-2010, 07:06 AM.
      I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
      It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
      "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Flushometer help

        JJJAAAMMM,

        Do NOT get over-concerned about your last post because if you order a complete Sloan Flushometer kit, the kit comes with everything necessary to replicate your original setup. The new tailpiece which is the vertical piece coming off the actual new flushometer. Kit comes I believe in a 12-15 inch length which you cut to your desired length using a standard tubing cutter (I recommend the rigid model 20 tubing cutter as it cuts the best). From there all you measure is use a new 90 degree 1-1/4 inch bathroom chrome ell easily purchased at Home Depot or a "mom & pop" hardware store. "Dry fit" all your cut pieces and if you are happy then sock everything down. Be sure to cut pieces on the "high" side as it is easier to correct versus trying to fit undersized pieces...plenty room for error as each piece allows slop for 1/2 in either direction.

        Do yourself a favor and do a google search for "Sloan Royal Flushometer" and you will find a parts listing along with detailed pictorials of everything which come as part of a typical Sloan Flushometer kit. 37 years ago when I moved into my house I, like yourself, I was very overwhelmed each time something in the house needed repairing. Newly married, priced out of Manhattan, and just bought a Queens house with $200 bucks left in the saving account. Flushometer replacement/repair is one of the more easy tasks compared to say re-tar'ing a flat roof. 30 years ago I could hump 50 pouns pails of tar up 3 stories to the roof but now at the age of 63 it's best left for my 20 year old son to do. Let me know if you need links but here's one to get you started...

        http://www.sloanplumbingparts.com/royal-r-flushometer

        As I mentioned earlier your original set-up is definitely a hodge-podge of Zurn/Delany/Sloan parts which is a testament to how standard parts are across flushometer manufacturers. If you are going to replace your flushometer I highly recommend you avoid a GEM...I speak from experience! Maintainence on a GEM is frequent versus a Royal/Regal
        Last edited by swong; 12-18-2010, 07:52 AM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Flushometer help

          Originally posted by swong View Post
          JJJAAAMMM,

          Do NOT get over-concerned about your last post because if you order a complete Sloan Flushometer kit, the kit comes with everything necessary to replicate your original setup. The new tailpiece which is the vertical piece coming off the actual new flushometer. Kit comes I believe in a 12-15 inch length which you cut to your desired length using a standard tubing cutter (I recommend the rigid model 20 tubing cutter as it cuts the best). From there all you measure is use a new 90 degree 1-1/4 inch bathroom chrome ell easily purchased at Home Depot or a "mom & pop" hardware store. "Dry fit" all your cut pieces and if you are happy then sock everything down. Be sure to cut pieces on the "high" side as it is easier to correct versus trying to fit undersized pieces...plenty room for error as each piece allows slop for 1/2 in either direction.

          Do yourself a favor and do a google search for "Sloan Royal Flushometer" and you will find a parts listing along with detailed pictorials of everything which come as part of a typical Sloan Flushometer kit. 37 years ago when I moved into my house I, like yourself, I was very overwhelmed each time something in the house needed repairing. Newly married, priced out of Manhattan, and just bought a Queens house with $200 bucks left in the saving account. Flushometer replacement/repair is one of the more easy tasks compared to say re-tar'ing a flat roof. 30 years ago I could hump 50 pouns pails of tar up 3 stories to the roof but now at the age of 63 it's best left for my 20 year old son to do. Let me know if you need links but here's one to get you started...

          http://www.sloanplumbingparts.com/royal-r-flushometer

          As I mentioned earlier your original set-up is definitely a hodge-podge of Zurn/Delany/Sloan parts which is a testament to how standard parts are across flushometer manufacturers. If you are going to replace your flushometer I highly recommend you avoid a GEM...I speak from experience! Maintainence on a GEM is frequent versus a Royal/Regal
          I am not familiar with how the pipes are joined, I have looked at all the install directions, however, I have not had hands on experience. Once the vertical vacuum breaker/tailpiece tube is cut does it need to be threaded?

          And if I go with a Royal will I have to modify the flow rate or anything?

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Flushometer help

            JJJAAAMMM,
            From all the questions you've posted I suspect this probably might be out of your league. If your heart is hell bent on doing this project yourself why don't you pay a visit to your local Home Depot, search out the individual covering the plumbing department and ask. Better yet, articulate the fact you would like the "reader's digest" condensed version of what parts would be required to perform a complete flushometer swap. Nothing beats touching, "scratching and sniffing" each and every part required to install a flushometer. If you ask nicely he might even bust open a flushometer kit just to make you feel "warm and fuzzy"

            I noticed you are a graphics artist. I am a postscript programmer but more importantly a homeowner which means I maintain, repair, and fix anything broken at home the majority of times. Do yourself a favor and hook up with any of your homeowner buddies and volunteer to assist each time they have a home project. Everything I've learned has been from watching, helping abd occasionally diving in after researching via google, Barnes&Noble, youtube, etc
            Last edited by swong; 12-18-2010, 06:31 PM.

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            • #51
              Re: Flushometer help

              More than likely your plumber will tell you to schedule for a shut down of the building . After everything is drained then he would install a new sloan valve ..Or just stub out for a more residential tank flush toilet...Why do you need a sloan valve anyhow??? Cant believe this thread is still going ..
              ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Flushometer help

                Originally posted by OLD1 View Post
                More than likely your plumber will tell you to schedule for a shut down of the building . After everything is drained then he would install a new sloan valve ..Or just stub out for a more residential tank flush toilet...Why do you need a sloan valve anyhow???...
                What I suggested earlier.
                Is there an advantage over a tank flush toilet?
                I found the tank top a nice top on which to set a few things.
                (Also, in a house, one can pull odors from the bowl into the flush rim through the tank.)
                I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
                It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
                "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Flushometer help

                  All I needed was the first picture.

                  Call a plumber.


                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Flushometer help

                    OK, I can't take it any longer.

                    Do you have enough insurance coverage to pay for any damage that may result from the units below you flooding out if a pipe breaks? Do you have the manpower and or knowledge to correct any unexpected problems that crop up??

                    You are looking for trouble if you attempt this installation as a DIY project. You will be saving on the tile job; take the savings and hire the guy in Rego park who it seems is a NYC plumber and well versed in what you are trying to solve.

                    I and the other plumbers on this forum do not do graphic arts, or if we do try our hand at it nothing but pride is harmed. You could conceivably cause tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage and be responsible for all reimbursements over and above what your insurance covers, i.e. if your insurance will cover it.

                    Jeez, stop asking advise and do what J.C. said at 7:23. You will be much happier. Draw us a picture of the outcome and I think everyone will be better off.

                    Seasons greetings to all!!!!

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                    • #55
                      Re: Flushometer help

                      call Sylvan Tiger, he's in NY, he'll take care of you..
                      The Other Rick

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                      • #56
                        Re: Flushometer help

                        Ha, Okay all, here is the deal, I ordered a new flushometer from Sloan and when it comes I am going to turn off my control stop and make sure the water has stopped; at that time I will take the day off from work and install the brand new flushometer while keeping my old control stop intact.

                        I have researched this to death and yes I am heavily insured.

                        The only modification I need to do is cut the vacuum breaker tube back and attach it to a chrome plated 1-1/4" 90 degree slip joint elbow which I will then attach to the rear spud of the toilet.

                        Also, to answer the others, the building requires the flushometers-

                        And to APHCO, I know you looked at my occupation and assume I spend all day drawing cute pictures without any consequence, however, on a daily basis I am responsible for million dollar graphic systems which run the live programing for one of the largest national television networks in the country, whats a few thousand dollars of damage when all is said and done, right? But, when I tackle this project I will be sure to post the results and maybe even sketch you a nice picture.

                        I really appreciate the advice from everyone - wish me luck and Happy Holidays!
                        Last edited by JJJAAAMMM; 12-21-2010, 08:56 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Flushometer help

                          Originally posted by JJJAAAMMM View Post

                          And to APHCO, I know you looked at my occupation and assume I spend all day drawing cute pictures without any consequence, however, on a daily basis I am responsible for million dollar graphic systems which run the live programing for one of the largest national television networks in the country, whats a few thousand dollars of damage when all is said and done, right?
                          The only assumptions I make : 1) there are 39 other units in the building that could be damaged or inconvenienced by something that goes wrong due to your handiwork and 2) a "few thousand dollars worth of damage" is not a big deal when it is your property being damaged, but it is a big deal it if it is someone else's keepsake or one of a kind piece of art work.

                          Come on, if the money doesn't mean much to you, hire an experienced plumbing contractor to do the work. You might be successful when you do this, but any of the professional plumbers on this site can tell stories about when things do not go right. If you were working in your beach house in the Hamptons or farm house in Connecticut then I would say "go for it", but in a 40 unit building, you are just looking for grief, unless of course you own all 40 units or own the whole building.

                          People tend to make fun of plumbers and to underplay the importance of our work, but every week I receive calls from someone who has attempted a plumbing project, screwed it up, and needs help now.

                          In my area it is usually a single family home and consequently not a big deal, but every once in a while it is a multiple residential building, whose maintenance man needs immediate help because he attempted something out of his realm of experience.

                          Enough said, good luck in whatever you decide to do. Please let us know what you decide and how it turns out.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Flushometer help

                            fair enough, although this entire project is predicated on the control stop being in good shape, if I think for one second it is not I will not continue. Also, I think when it comes to a highly capable (yet admittedly short in the tooth) person installing a brand new modern valve vs. relying on a 60 year old valve, I think at worst it would be a wash.

                            I have all the respect in the world for skilled plumbers, that is why I am turning to you guys for insight, however, I refuse to pay $500-$1000 for a plumber to install this because he works in the highest market (Manhattan) and knows it is scary looking.

                            I will not force anything or torque anything and if I can't get the old valve off without having to do so, I will stop and throw in the towel.

                            I do not let fear of the unknown stunt my growth, and after reading the responses from this thread, as well as talking with some people offline, I believe this is a very doable job for me. If at any moment I think I am recklessly putting my neighbors at risk I will stop.

                            However, seeing as I only live above one person, and she is a smoker in a wood frame building who is putting whom at more risk?

                            Anyway - I will be sure to post followups once this is underway.
                            Last edited by JJJAAAMMM; 12-21-2010, 11:24 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Flushometer help

                              Originally posted by JJJAAAMMM View Post
                              Ha, Okay all, here is the deal, I ordered a new flushometer from Sloan and when it comes I am going to turn off my control stop and make sure the water has stopped; at that time I will take the day off from work and install the brand new flushometer while keeping my old control stop intact.

                              I have researched this to death and yes I am heavily insured.

                              The only modification I need to do is cut the vacuum breaker tube back and attach it to a chrome plated 1-1/4" 90 degree slip joint elbow which I will then attach to the rear spud of the toilet.

                              Also, to answer the others, the building requires the flushometers-

                              And to APHCO, I know you looked at my occupation and assume I spend all day drawing cute pictures without any consequence, however, on a daily basis I am responsible for million dollar graphic systems which run the live programing for one of the largest national television networks in the country, whats a few thousand dollars of damage when all is said and done, right? But, when I tackle this project I will be sure to post the results and maybe even sketch you a nice picture.

                              I really appreciate the advice from everyone - wish me luck and Happy Holidays!
                              I'm wondering why not install a new toilet while you're at it. You can get one with a top spud.
                              Time flies like an arrow.

                              Fruit flies like a banana.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Flushometer help

                                Originally posted by geno gardner View Post
                                I'm wondering why not install a new toilet while you're at it. You can get one with a top spud.
                                good question! My rough in is at 13". Top spud toilets rough in at 10" mostly, and it is actually easier for me to get the flush tube to match up to a rear spud by modifying the vacuum tube as opposed to having to modify the supply line (out of my league) to move the whole valve out 3" from the wall.

                                Also, my tub is the same blue color and I don't want to have to replace that as well.

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