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Framers nightmare.

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  • #16
    Re: Framers nightmare.

    Originally posted by Flux View Post
    Toilets are also on those same plans, and it sucks when a joist is dead center of where the toilet flange is supposed to be. Most carpenters don't know how to make a faucet pocket for tubs and showers, because it wasn't on the plan. Not sure about others here, but I don't drill across 2x4's on new construction...I have the stud moved.

    However, a good carpenter being told once about it, he will never let it happen again. The only 2 carpenters we work with, know our moves and what we like, so it's never a problem for us anymore.
    Project manager(general,superintendant,homeowner)always calls me to do joist layout before second floor goes down.It was up to me to communicate with the homeowner where they wanted their toilet off of the wall,rarely was a toilet in a 30" space"You want it centered under the window,15" off the wall or 15" off the tub so you can put a magazine rack in".If the framer doesn't leave the layout open at a standard tub I get to capitalise on his lack of professionalism the first moment I see his lack of attention/knowledge.

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    • #17
      Re: Framers nightmare.

      Originally posted by Robert Gift View Post
      Not in Romex?
      Conductors becamexposed by rodents?

      Excellent job of drilling but sad to see the structure so badly weakened by that 8-inch vertical hole.
      Cannot be strengthened withat copper pipe going throughorizontally.
      Will have to cuthat pipe and put ithrough the new 4x8s.
      I wanna see how the waste gets reworked...to code
      Not that it's hard,just want to see the caliber of plumber that addresses this.

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      • #18
        Re: Framers nightmare.

        Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
        Project manager(general,superintendant,homeowner)always calls me to do joist layout before second floor goes down.It was up to me to communicate with the homeowner where they wanted their toilet off of the wall,rarely was a toilet in a 30" space"You want it centered under the window,15" off the wall or 15" off the tub so you can put a magazine rack in".If the framer doesn't leave the layout open at a standard tub I get to capitalise on his lack of professionalism the first moment I see his lack of attention/knowledge.
        Things are a little different in my area. You must be dealing on a much larger scale than I ever had with project managers and things of that nature. If you don't get to the Carpenter first...you're gonna be fighting a lot of stupidness around my way.

        But to be fair to carpenters, I don't expect them to know Plumbing code either. But then again, a lot of carpenters in my area "think" they know Plumbing better than me.

        A lot of these guys in my area are nail gun happy! You know the type of guys...when you're about to drill a hole, and there are 50 nails in the way!

        But I've worked with some really good craftsman in where, a tub will slide right into it's pocket, without the use of a sledge, cause the pocket is too tight.

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        • #19
          Re: Framers nightmare.

          Originally posted by Flux View Post
          Things are a little different in my area. You must be dealing on a much larger scale than I ever had with project managers and things of that nature. If you don't get to the Carpenter first...you're gonna be fighting a lot of stupidness around my way.

          But to be fair to carpenters, I don't expect them to know Plumbing code either. But then again, a lot of carpenters in my area "think" they know Plumbing better than me.

          A lot of these guys in my area are nail gun happy! You know the type of guys...when you're about to drill a hole, and there are 50 nails in the way!

          But I've worked with some really good craftsman in where, a tub will slide right into it's pocket, without the use of a sledge, cause the pocket is too tight.
          Craftsmanship has definately dropped off in the past decade.Framers did not used to "Butt-In" and mess things up,because homeowners buy cheap trades everyone is crawling all over each other trying to get attention.

          Nailguns...Yep.
          Could you imagine how nice it would be if the framers would only triple nail at an angle in the plate at the studs leaving the entire 14 1/2" open.The professional custom framers I would work with took pride in this.Now I got Hispanics that think they are gang members on new years eve.
          Tubs,Idiot on last job framed to 5-0" f-ing homeowner and his laborer framer.

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          • #20
            Re: Framers nightmare.

            Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
            I wanna see how the waste gets reworked...to code ...
            Since damage is already done, is best solution to attach joists on both sides of the weakened joist and leave the vent as is?
            I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
            It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
            "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

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            • #21
              Re: Framers nightmare.

              Originally posted by Robert Gift View Post
              Since damage is already done, is best solution to attach joists on both sides of the weakened joist and leave the vent as is?
              I think your right.After the copper is moved as stated by a previous poster.
              Unfortunately if I had put it in and one of our litigeous entities got wind of it.I would be tearing out the pipe,framer would be replacing the framing,drywaller,painter and whoever else including expert witnesses wanted on the gravy trainnwould be jumping in.Easily get into five digits.

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              • #22
                Re: Framers nightmare.

                I think I will just leave it in and glue and screw 2 x 8's on each side after jacking it level. The copper pipe now, I need to go down there and check it out more to figure where to put it.

                Thanks
                Charles

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                • #23
                  Re: Framers nightmare.

                  Originally posted by NW Diver View Post
                  I think I will just leave it in and glue and screw 2 x 8's on each side after jacking it level. The copper pipe now, I need to go down there and check it out more to figure where to put it.

                  Thanks
                  Don't know if code will allow gluing and bolting.
                  Maybe need to hang the two 2x8s, or better, rest them on sills.

                  You should be able to drill a small hole in the middle of the two and continue the copper pipe through all three.
                  I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
                  It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
                  "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Framers nightmare.

                    Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
                    In MN framing inspection is the last inspection before insulation. All electrical and mechanical must be roughed in and inspected before they will inspect framing.
                    Yep. We're the best.
                    Time flies like an arrow.

                    Fruit flies like a banana.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Framers nightmare.

                      Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                      Beam is on the plans,same set the plumber is provided with when he bids the jobs.Many plumbing contractors can't even rough in a house until a framer who can read the plans builds it.Pipes up in the wrong wall against the joist.
                      Those must be California type plumbers.

                      (Sorry dude, not enough willpower to pass on that setup)
                      Time flies like an arrow.

                      Fruit flies like a banana.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Framers nightmare.

                        Originally posted by geno gardner View Post
                        Those must be California type plumbers.

                        (Sorry dude, not enough willpower to pass on that setup)
                        By all means,take the shot.This place would be boring if everyone went monotone.



                        Could be more of a true staement then you meant.

                        Although sometimes on the various forums I peep around on I hear some pretty scary stuff from guys who consider themselves capable.Now that I have been going into homes and seeing the quality of unsupervised instalation in hidden/uninspected areas I'm losing more faith.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Framers nightmare.

                          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                          By all means,take the shot.This place would be boring if everyone went monotone.



                          Could be more of a true staement then you meant.

                          Although sometimes on the various forums I peep around on I hear some pretty scary stuff from guys who consider themselves capable.Now that I have been going into homes and seeing the quality of unsupervised instalation in hidden/uninspected areas I'm losing more faith.
                          I've had occasion to work with other plumbers who had bragged in one way or another how great they were in one way or another. Then I got to see their work. I've come to learn that beauty is absolutely in the eye of the beholder.

                          I recall one time when I was working with my dad, I annealed a couple feet of hard copper and created a several inch offset instead of using 90's or 45's to get over a beam. My intention was to minimize the friction loss they experienced. (Not great water volume from the street).

                          My dad thought it looked like crap. I thought it looked OK, but not nearly as nice as when I use the bender. In that case there wasn't room for the bender. I certainly spent more time annealing then I would have just cutting and putting in the fittings. I ended up cutting the pipe and using 45's to make dad happy. It may have looked better, but I believe functionally my way would result in greater water volume.

                          Normally I'm the one upping the standards, but not always.
                          Time flies like an arrow.

                          Fruit flies like a banana.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Framers nightmare.

                            Originally posted by Robert Gift View Post
                            Oh. Funny.

                            On my garage workbench I was working with a piece of wire which managed to stick itself into the hot slot of a receptacle.
                            Got a nice tingle because I was not well grounded. (Before GFCIs)

                            Had I TRIED to inserthe wire into that outlet, I would have been unsuccessful.

                            Puzzle: Why have I changed all outlets to have the ground on top?

                            Robert,

                            My son was replacing a guitar string a few years back. At some point it sprung in such a way that one end of the string, metal of course, went into the hot side of an AC outlet. That baby became red hot and there was a burn mark in the carpet about a foot long with twists and turns in it where ever the string was touching the floor.

                            I don't know if he was burned or not as he never said a thing. I only know about it because I asked him what happened when I saw the odd burn mark.
                            Time flies like an arrow.

                            Fruit flies like a banana.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Framers nightmare.

                              Originally posted by Robert Gift View Post

                              Puzzle: Why have I changed all outlets to have the ground on top?
                              To save someone a bright surprise in case they were to drop a knife or a spoon across the top of the prongs of a plug that's plugged in. The ground on top would prevent that.

                              Actually, I thought I heard the code was requiring that a decade or so ago, but I never saw the practice become ubiquitous so maybe it isn't code.
                              Time flies like an arrow.

                              Fruit flies like a banana.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                You are right!

                                Originally posted by geno gardner View Post
                                To save someone a bright surprise in case they were to drop a knife or a spoon across the top of the prongs of a plug that's plugged in. The ground on top would prevent that.
                                Actually, I thought I heard the code was requiring that a decade or so ago, but I never saw the practice become ubiquitous so maybe it isn't code.
                                I had a piece of tin fall on an outlet and touch the hot prong, even though the plug was well plugged-in.
                                No ground so nothing happened.
                                Never learned of this in any code.
                                No house I have seen evidences it.
                                I'd take an educated guess - but I'm unqualified.
                                It ain't just soot, it's paydirt.
                                "I swear, wherever Gift goes, argument follows." -Youtube comment

                                Comment

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