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  • New well pump failed, need advise.

    Looking for some advise here,
    Last August I bought a 4" Submersible well pump off of Ebay for a new irrigation system I was installing. The pump was manufactured by a company called Norton, it is 220v 1-1/2hp 25gpm, and cost me $437. Local suppliers wanted well over $1000 for something comparable. The pump was suspended 40' deep in a clean water well, and it was installed with a tank and pressure switch. I designed the system properly so when the sprinklers were on, the pressure would hold at 60psi, and the pump would not cycle, as the switch was set at 50-70psi. Anyway, I finished the system this spring, and everything worked perfectly. I was impressed with the pump, until the motor went bad. It will run for about 10 seconds, build up a very small amount of pressure, and kick the breaker. I pulled the pump, seperated the motor from the pump, and the same thing happens, runs for about 10 seconds, kicks the breaker, and the motor is very hot.
    Anyway, I suppose that is what I get for buying a pump off Ebay from a company that I never heard of before, but the seller had perfect feedback, and still does today even though he is no longer active. I sent an email to the company inquiring about a warrenty, but I doubt I will here back, so my questions are:
    1. Can this pump motor be repaired? Is it worth taking apart?
    2. I found 2 other pumps under the $500 range that will work with my system. First is the Franklin J-Class V 1HP 20GPM for $500
    http://www.franklin-electric.com/res.../series-v.aspx
    , second is a WellSub by Grudfos SC4" 1HP 25gpm for $300 http://www.us.grundfos.com/web/downl...-WS-SL-001.pdf
    Does anyone here have any feedback with these 2 pumps?

    Thanks for reading my long post, any info greatly appreciated!

  • #2
    Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

    why do you need a horse and a half, you probably only need a 1/2 hP 7GPM pump which you should be able to pick up a reputable pump. grundfos, goulds, myers for less than the unknown manufacterer pump off of ebay.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

      ummmm i just reread your post, I dont see why you need a 20-25 gpm pump? How many heads in your sprinklers with how many GPM peak demand? How big is your storage tank? how many feet of TDH from your pump to the Pressure switch?

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      • #4
        Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

        You may be able to just replace the motor on the pump, it may save you some if you can find a motor that fits the pump you have,
        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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        attributed to Samuel Johnson
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        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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        • #5
          Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

          I have only heard of Norton pumps one other time and it seems like it was from E-Bay. If your pressure holds at 60 while each zone is running, you did it right. Right pump and equal zones. Your in the minority. The Well Sub is not a Grundfos. It's a Dab who is owned by Grundfos. They only make all stainless pumps and this one is mostly plastic. It has a Tesla motor on it not a Grundfos also. You need to be careful what you read on the Internet. There is always someone selling something that isn't what it appears to be. I sell pumps on the Internet including Grundfos, but I like to keep it above board.

          If you want to buy just a motor, I highly recommend Grundfos or Franklin, but stay away from the Chinese motors sold on practically all the brand name pumps today. The Tesla which I had sold to me when I thought I was buying Franklin a couple years back by Pentair (Myers) was a piece of junk and I had a bunch of failures before I figured out what was going on.

          I don't know why your old motor went bad, but I would be curious what brand it was. And whether it was a two or three wire motor.
          Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

            Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
            ummmm i just reread your post, I dont see why you need a 20-25 gpm pump? How many heads in your sprinklers with how many GPM peak demand? How big is your storage tank? how many feet of TDH from your pump to the Pressure switch?
            I am running a total of 5 Zones, 4 zones in my back yard have 6 rotary heads each, spaced 30 feet apart, with nozzles flowing 5.5 gpm at 60psi. 1 zone, in my front yard has 8 rotary heads with different flow rates, but it is balanced with the same water demand as the zones out back.
            I suppose I could get a smaller pump and lower the operating pressure to 50 psi, maybe change the nozzles to smaller ones, but watering times would be a little longer. If my calculations are correct, the TDH is roughly 138 at 50psi, and 163 at 60psi.
            It seems like I got the pump right though, as the pressure was pretty much dead nuts 60 PSI on each zone with no cycling of the pump from start to finish. I didn't get a chance to run the whole system through a complete cycle, but I think 20 minutes each zone would have been plenty of water for my yard. My tank is way to small, 20 gal, but since I am not allowing the pump to cycle, and i'm only using it for irrigation I figured it wouldn't matter.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

              Originally posted by speedbump View Post

              If you want to buy just a motor, I highly recommend Grundfos or Franklin, but stay away from the Chinese motors sold on practically all the brand name pumps today. The Tesla which I had sold to me when I thought I was buying Franklin a couple years back by Pentair (Myers) was a piece of junk and I had a bunch of failures before I figured out what was going on.

              I don't know why your old motor went bad, but I would be curious what brand it was. And whether it was a two or three wire motor.
              It's a 2 wire motor, just says Norton on the label. I'm considering a motor replacement, as it looks like the Norton motor is 14 spline. When I get some free time i'm going to take it apart and see what happend.
              So the WellSub is out, what about the Franklin J-Class? Looks like it uses a Franklin Motor and it is 2 wire. Do you have a Grundfos or Wilo that you suggest?
              Last edited by Jamey; 04-04-2011, 09:18 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

                Originally posted by Jamey View Post
                I am running a total of 5 Zones, 4 zones in my back yard have 6 rotary heads each, spaced 30 feet apart, with nozzles flowing 5.5 gpm at 60psi. 1 zone, in my front yard has 8 rotary heads with different flow rates, but it is balanced with the same water demand as the zones out back.
                I suppose I could get a smaller pump and lower the operating pressure to 50 psi, maybe change the nozzles to smaller ones, but watering times would be a little longer. If my calculations are correct, the TDH is roughly 138 at 50psi, and 163 at 60psi.
                It seems like I got the pump right though, as the pressure was pretty much dead nuts 60 PSI on each zone with no cycling of the pump from start to finish. I didn't get a chance to run the whole system through a complete cycle, but I think 20 minutes each zone would have been plenty of water for my yard. My tank is way to small, 20 gal, but since I am not allowing the pump to cycle, and i'm only using it for irrigation I figured it wouldn't matter.
                The pump has to be cycling it is impossible for you to be watering your lawn with 20 gallons. Leave everything setup as is and change your pump to a half horse pump and you will be fine. Your hp has nothing to do with your pressure you can still run 60 psi but your pump will probably last longer because it will stay on longer and not have to start as much.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

                  http://www.goulds.com/pdf/7310.pdf

                  And check out the rest of the goulds website. It will answer many questions

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

                    Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
                    The pump has to be cycling it is impossible for you to be watering your lawn with 20 gallons. Leave everything setup as is and change your pump to a half horse pump and you will be fine. Your hp has nothing to do with your pressure you can still run 60 psi but your pump will probably last longer because it will stay on longer and not have to start as much.
                    Definately not cycling, the pump runs the whole time the system is on, like it should for irrigation. For it to cycle, it would have to climb up to 70 psi, shut off, fall to 50, turn on, climb to 70, shut off etc. The system is balanced perfectly, I just got a cheap pump.

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                    • #11
                      Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

                      well it sounds like everything is working fine then, I would replace the motor end with a franklin and call it a day!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

                        Thanks! I really appreciate the advise.
                        Here's my dilema though, 1.5hp Franklin Motor $415 plus shipping, New goulds 18gs10 pump and motor $594 plus shipping. I would hate to invest money into a pump that might fail like the motor did, when an extra $200 can get me a whole new unit.
                        Also, do you think it is wise to get a 3 wire instead of a 2 wire? Can the capacitors on the 2 wire pumps be replaced if and when they go bad? Just asking because the capacitors on my pool motor seem to go bad every 5 years or so.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

                          I don't see how dropping to a half horse is going to do the job without dropping the flow rate of the heads.

                          Goulds makes different pumps like many other companies. Some good, some not so good. They all use the Chinese motor.

                          My Grundfos 1.5hp 25 is $797.33. That's why I don't push them. They are over priced. The Wilo is 15% less than the Grundfos on all sizes. It has the Faradyne motor and I can't vouch for it. I have no experience with them as yet. They just became available to me recently.

                          There is no capacitor in a two wire motor other than the run cap on the bottom of the Tesla motor. It is in a plastic housing and if it gets hung too deep, the run caps housing leaks and the motor dies. You get what you pay for out there, whether it's off Ebay or wherever you buy. My best price and a very good quality pump with a Franklin motor is here: Submersible Pumps
                          Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

                            Oh by the way, a 1.5hp Franklin or Grundfos two wire motor is $350.00. I have the Franklin, but don't think I have the Grundfos in stock.
                            Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: New well pump failed, need advise.

                              Originally posted by speedbump View Post

                              There is no capacitor in a two wire motor other than the run cap on the bottom of the Tesla motor. It is in a plastic housing and if it gets hung too deep, the run caps housing leaks and the motor dies.
                              Exactly what may have happened. I took the motor apart and it was full of water, even though it was only 40ft down the well. SS Motor with plastic housing on the bottom with a cap inside.
                              Tough decision to go with a motor or whole pump. Do I trust the Norton pump section to hang in there? You may have me sold on the Betta Flo. Do you have a link to performance curves. I can't decide between 1 or 1.5 horse, and 20 or 30gpm. I have a feeling that the 1hp 20gpm will be plenty. The feed pipe from the pump to the tank is 1-1/4 inch poly, then the system turns into 1" pvc. Water level in the well with the pump running is at 20 feet, and highest point of irrigation system is probably 2 feet higher
                              I can always change the nozzles in the heads to adjust the flow rates.
                              Last edited by Jamey; 04-05-2011, 12:18 PM.

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