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  • kdk1
    started a topic Question for Plumber Rick

    Question for Plumber Rick

    Rick - This seems to be right up your alley, being from LA and all . Can you chime in? (I'd PM you, but your box is full)
    - - - - -
    Seawater mist corroding gas pipe - replace with TracPipe or Fletchkoted ?

    Our 10 year old beachfront house on the water near L.A. has significant corrosion (bubbling, thinning, and bulging) of the gas pipes that run on the underside of the house and are exposed to salt water spray. The piping is currently coated (low grade Scotchkote? painted on?), but some of it is thin and/or wasn’t wrapped where the coating was nicked or abraded during installation, and that’s where the corrosion is. The part that runs through the foundation is sheathed in a PVC conduit, and none of it is in contact with the ground anywhere, but its very exposed to salty mist.

    I have proposals from two well recommended licensed plumbers for replacing the exterior gas lines. (the risers and inside lines are black pipe, and seem to be OK.). One proposal is for 1.5 in Omegaflex TracPipe (standard yellow CSST or PS-II ?) (with bonding clamp, of course) with connection to existing risers; the other proposal is for 2 in. Fletchkote (green epoxy coated iron pipe) with wrapped galvanized fittings, and tied into existing risers.

    The TracPipe proposal is about 20% higher than the Fletchkote, but I’m mostly concerned with safety and future corrosion prevention.

    Which should I get?

    Also, any suggestions for particular specs I should insist on (other than the bonding for the TracPipe, and primer+ wrapping for the Fletchkote at fittings and any abrasions during installation.) would be much appreciated.

    Thanks for your advice.

    Ken

  • geno gardner
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
    it's no difference than a flex connector. you do use flex connectors on your appliances, don't you

    remember this is exposed material under the house hanging from the floor joist. if they hit it with a nail. they deserve to have a leak.

    so with the house sitting just above the sands of malibu would you use steel pipe and attempt to protect it from the salt water and corrosion, or use a material that should need no protection from the elements as it's already stainless and has a factory plastic coating that will seal it from exposure.

    you can see already what the wrapped pipe looks like when the coating got scuffed by the jaws.

    i have 12 more photos that mark and adam have seen. it still appears to be surface rust as the hangers are still in tact.

    rick.
    Gastite has a new coated lighting resistant CSST out. It's an extra layer of SS braiding, and then is coated with another plastic coating. Perhaps they put that in, and then there's no maintenance program to deal with relative to the slat water.

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    it's no difference than a flex connector. you do use flex connectors on your appliances, don't you

    remember this is exposed material under the house hanging from the floor joist. if they hit it with a nail. they deserve to have a leak.

    so with the house sitting just above the sands of malibu would you use steel pipe and attempt to protect it from the salt water and corrosion, or use a material that should need no protection from the elements as it's already stainless and has a factory plastic coating that will seal it from exposure.

    you can see already what the wrapped pipe looks like when the coating got scuffed by the jaws.

    i have 12 more photos that mark and adam have seen. it still appears to be surface rust as the hangers are still in tact.

    rick.

    Leave a comment:


  • NHMaster3015
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
    nhmaster, we don't have lightning storms, just as you don't have earthquakes.

    there is nothing wrong with csst in los angeles. if there was, we would be the first to outlaw it. the iampo testing lab is located in los angeles.

    the only thing i see wrong with his question is the sizing that's way off between the 2 products.

    rick.
    Sorry but hell will freeze over before I approve that crap anywhere. It's nothing more than beefed up dryer vent. Nails go through it like butter.

    Leave a comment:


  • ToUtahNow
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    No question there is a lot of nasty stuff there. None of that stuff should be exposed to salt air. The gas, water, lumber and steel should all be cleaned up (or replaced if needed) then protected in an approved manner.

    You are lucky you are catching this now and addressing it. This should be an on going maintenance program for you. Whoever you have do your repairs, they should check all of your plumbing as it is an iffy installation at best. In addition, I would consider insulating those exposed water lines.

    Mark
    Last edited by ToUtahNow; 04-23-2011, 03:37 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    i was sent another 10 pictures and have forwarded them to mark and adam for some input. of course a real inspection would be required to see the extent.

    but looking at the hangers and tie wire, that's still intact, i think it's just surface rust that's flaking.

    rick.

    Leave a comment:


  • idlplumb
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    I agree completely with Rick. If that's as bad as it gets, it looks like it can easily be cleaned up and protected. Why change it out if you don't really need to?

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    ken, check your email and we'll talk in the morning

    rick.

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    ken, thanks. actually adam is closer to you from the canyon. we all are getting together tomorrow at 4pm sherman oaks galleria cheesecake factory. good chance to meet mark, adam, myself, ben and aram plus our better or for worse halfs

    honestly, how many spots are like the one pictured?

    i think it could easily be repaired and be in good shape.

    the pipe has a factory green /fletcher coat,. that's been damaged by the jaws of the wrenches and threader. the pipe should be in good condition underneath and probably only requires a wire brush, some cleaning. priming with pipe wrap primer and properly protected with 10 mil tape.

    much cheaper than ripping it out and starting over.

    hard to tell, but i doubt it's any bigger than 1.5'' pipe, most likely smaller from the size of the tape/ christy writing and scaling it.

    let us know if you want to join us for an early dinner and you can meet us. it will be worth your time

    i feel a proper inspection is necessary to determine the best direction to go. but if the photo is the worst of it, then a simple cleaning and proper taping is all that's required.

    chances are i know the 2 other companies

    send mark/ toutahnow your contact info and we can talk

    rick.
    Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 04-23-2011, 12:51 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • kdk1
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
    the csst cost more for material and fittings, but the labor is much faster than for threaded pipe.


    how many connections/ tees are required? 6 or 8, I think.


    normally 1.5'' threaded pipe would require 2'' csst.
    either 1.5'' csst is undersized or 2'' iron pipe is oversized.

    are you sure about the size?

    That's what their proposals said


    what is the exisiting gas main size?

    I'm pretty sure existing main is 2" (but I wont be there to measure it for a week or so). Maybe you can tell from the attached photos (?)


    personally the csst with the factory plastic coating will outlast threaded pipe. but threaded pipe properly protected will outlast us both

    Assuming it would be sized correctly, which would you go with if it was your house

    what city? mdr, playa. venice, s.m.?

    Its in Malibu. Are you interested in doing the job? If not, if you PM me, I'll tell you who the proposals are from, and you can tell me if you know the guys and their work. (one is in Venice and the other is in LA)

    (I think it might be too far to be worth Adam drtyhands while as suggested by Mark, but if he's interested he can PM me as well)




    rick.
    And thanks to all of you for taking the time to answer this newbie HO's questions !!

    Ken
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    nhmaster, we don't have lightning storms, just as you don't have earthquakes.

    there is nothing wrong with csst in los angeles. if there was, we would be the first to outlaw it. the iampo testing lab is located in los angeles.

    the only thing i see wrong with his question is the sizing that's way off between the 2 products.

    rick.

    Leave a comment:


  • NHMaster3015
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    Personally I would not put CSST in my worst enemy's house. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Oh wait, it already has happened....lots and lots of times

    Leave a comment:


  • ToUtahNow
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    I'd have Adam (drtyhands) come give you an estimate and then we would know it is properly done regardless of the price. Knowledge and honesty is tough to gauge from recommendations but Adam bleeds both.

    Mark
    Last edited by ToUtahNow; 04-22-2011, 01:17 PM.

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  • PLUMBER RICK
    replied
    Re: Question for Plumber Rick

    the csst cost more for material and fittings, but the labor is much faster than for threaded pipe.

    personally the csst with the factory plastic coating will outlast threaded pipe. but threaded pipe properly protected will outlast us both

    how many connections/ tees are required?

    are you sure about the size?

    normally 1.5'' threaded pipe would require 2'' csst.

    either 1.5'' csst is undersized or 2'' iron pipe is oversized. what is the exisiting gas main size?

    what city? mdr, playa. venice, s.m.?



    rick.

    Leave a comment:

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