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  • Installation of pans

    Now this may have been asked before but as we all get older we sometimes change our ways of thinking I hope no one is offended.

    When installing a floor mounted pan if the floor is not level or stable and the pan rocks about like Iron Maiden or like, do you set the pan on "mud(mortar mix)" or do you set it on silicone??????????????

    I will elaborate later as to why I ask this question but would appreciate differing opinions first.

  • #2
    Re: Installation of pans

    Master, sorry we obviously call somethings different to you guys. Ok so what I was referring to is a toilet pan. The reason behind my question is that our regulations allow for us to set a toilet pan on mud/mortar so as to obtain a level and secure installation. I have a situation whereby I called a warranty on the Manufacturer, a leading bathroom goods manufacturer(not sure whether the name is known in USA) and they are trying to weasel out because I did not use silicone to secure the pan/toilet. In short they have a problem because they are trying to make more money with their new dodgey way of manufacturing and they have been caught out. I want to know if all of the professionals out here agree or disagree. My point is silicone does not stop a pan rocking and doesnt level up a pan on an uneven floor. Just as a point the client has threatened to go to Consumer Affairs which will see the Manufacturer look like the Idiots they already are.

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    • #3
      Re: Installation of pans

      When I install a toilet pan with a S trap through the floor I silicone and screw to it down whether the floor is concret timber or tiled to be able to remove it later on if a blockage accures and there is no other access to future proof the job with a P pan through the wall and a clear out is on the outsde wall I will either cement it down or silicone and screw it down.
      So what is the problem ??

      Tony

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      • #4
        Re: Installation of pans

        Yeh Tony for checking in. The problem is that Caroma dont like warranties. I have a basic pan which is total crap and they maintain that I dont know what I am talking about. Their serviceman, wont remove and replace a pan if it is set on mud/mortar. So then the fight begins. I advised the Client that we could go to Small claims tribunal and guess what, Caroma decides to listen. However, it took many phones calls and some tense moments but, as with most manufacturers, they dont believe us, the real professionals.
        Bit tired tonight so short on details but will say, am putting in a claim for my lost time and trouble and will be happy to take them all the way to get a result. watch this space. When is it acceptable for us to lose money on **** products which are bought in good faith.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Installation of pans

          the caromas are sold here, but not in great numbers their claim to fame is the ability to flush whole potato's

          we don't have so called pans. we have closet flanges/ closet rings. those get screwed down to the floor. then 2- brass closet bolts are installed up to tighten the toilet down to the flange with a wax ring for the seal. the toilet is then tightened and if need be shimmed if the floor is not level/ flat. once properly tested and flushed, we then caulk the toilet at the base to prevent any debris / liquids from getting under the toilet and creating an unsanitary condition. plus it also helps to glue the toilet to the floor and prevent rocking.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Installation of pans

            Originally posted by Cleanmen2 View Post
            Yeh Tony for checking in. The problem is that Caroma dont like warranties. I have a basic pan which is total crap and they maintain that I dont know what I am talking about. Their serviceman, wont remove and replace a pan if it is set on mud/mortar. So then the fight begins. I advised the Client that we could go to Small claims tribunal and guess what, Caroma decides to listen. However, it took many phones calls and some tense moments but, as with most manufacturers, they dont believe us, the real professionals.
            Bit tired tonight so short on details but will say, am putting in a claim for my lost time and trouble and will be happy to take them all the way to get a result. watch this space. When is it acceptable for us to lose money on **** products which are bought in good faith.
            Whenever I have had a warrenty problem with a plumbing product I have gone back to my plumbing shop and spoken to the manager and they have sorted it out as they have the real clout trying to sort it out yourself is waste of time the siliconing down of pans has been in since the 1980`s and before then they were always cemented down you would have loved it before pvc pan collars came in and bitumining the outled to the cast iron or earthenware collar and trying not to crack the pan from the heat of the bitumin they were the days when a plumber had to be a pro with nerves of steel with tatts all over his arm and where the client called you sir

            Tony

            Tony

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Installation of pans

              I would like to see a pic of how you fellas down there do this pan. Sounds interesting.
              Rick, I was alway's taught not to use silicone around the base of toilet incase of a leak, so you would see the water comeing out from under.
              I took a wc. up once that had been caulked, and had been leaking, but didn't show in the basement. That was a mess, with bugs and crap caked all over.

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              • #8
                Re: Installation of pans

                Ipc has been requiring caulking the toilet to the floor, Not sure about you guys up there. It's supposed to have to do with providing a sanitary seal to the floor. I just caulk the front 2/3 of the toilet, so water will weep out of the back if there is a leak.
                No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

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                • #9
                  Re: Installation of pans

                  Really?! I will have to check on that. They change things every year, so you have to take the "code changes class" every dang year!
                  I will probably do as you and do 3/4 of it, and call her good. SORRY code gods!
                  I do love my job, and the code is there for good reason! I juyst had some drinks at my brotherinlaws pool so I'm not in the code mood. Sorry.
                  Last edited by nobackfall; 07-31-2011, 08:03 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Installation of pans

                    If the floor is good and flat I use caulk

                    if the floor is real un even Sanded thin set Mortar ...

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                    • #11
                      Re: Installation of pans

                      How does that thin set come up when you have to change her out?
                      If I have a closet that won't sit level, I throw a smashed piece of 1/2 inch copper under one side, and she stops rockin just fine.
                      Might be HACK, but works great!
                      Throw a little" code caulk" around, and she looks like a gem!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Installation of pans

                        thin set usually pops loose ok then remove excess with diamond on angle grinder

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                        • #13
                          Re: Installation of pans

                          i have a jar of both soft rubber and hard plastic shims. they drive in easy and snap off to lenght. they are white in color and easy to cover with caulking.

                          i found that a scraper blade on my dremel multimax tool does a great job breaking out the dried caulking from the floor. seems like it heats up the caulking and melts through to remove.

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Installation of pans

                            I caulk my toilets to, but at the very very back I leave about a 1 inch gap in the caulk. I have pulled a toilet with a leaking wax, and the grout they used to "caulk" the toilet in did such a good job, it not only kept all the water in, but also the smell.
                            And by smell I mean STANK. Pure rotten sewage from urine and fecal particles rotting over the months.
                            So the little weep hole is there to provide relief and show a leak, and keep water from getting that far gone.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Installation of pans

                              Originally posted by stolen View Post
                              I caulk my toilets to, but at the very very back I leave about a 1 inch gap in the caulk. I have pulled a toilet with a leaking wax, and the grout they used to "caulk" the toilet in did such a good job, it not only kept all the water in, but also the smell.
                              And by smell I mean STANK. Pure rotten sewage from urine and fecal particles rotting over the months.
                              So the little weep hole is there to provide relief and show a leak, and keep water from getting that far gone.
                              I guess thats why I don't understand the whole caulking thing. I mean, I'd rather see the leaking crap water coming out then have it sitting under there for years just rotting more. Oh well....

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