Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
ProPress Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: ProPress

    4" Propress valves weren't available 5 years ago, and they are super pricey today. I remember griping about the cost of PP Couplings less stop back in 2001.
    It really irked me that they charged more for leaving out the dimple in the fitting than the ones with a dimple or stop.

    After installing more than 600 3/4" ball valves for one owner, it didn't matter. That little job bought me a brand new 2002 Chevy Silverado 2500 Crew Cab with utility bed and lift gate.

    Friday, we have a 4 hour window to install 4-4" Ball Valves and 2-2" Ball Valves in a 3 story hotel, including drain down. They will be located
    above a suspended ceiling with all the other electrical, communication, and fire lines. There is barely enough room to clamp on the press collar.
    The first time we did this for them, the owners screamed like little girls because of the price. This time they prepaid for the job two weeks ago
    to avoid a price increase. (Note: The 2" valves are leaking at solder joints. The 4" valves are new installations)

    In the 18 pages of this thread, I've come to the conclusion that both sides are right. If you like it, buy and use it every chance you get.
    If you don't like it, trust it, think its too costly for you, don't buy it. It's not like Obamacare, you don't have to buy it.

    If you are thinking about taking the plunge, then develop a plan of action on how to best put it to use.
    Then work the plan. (Hint: I developed my own PP price list on a Excel spreadsheet using List Prices and the PHCC Labor Calculator that
    comes in real handy when called out on an estimate)

    I used a Turbotorch and Maap Gas for the soldering work.

    I'd appreciate your insight to a new topic I started on Sch 80 PVC and roll grooving if you have some experience in that method.

    Comment


    • Re: ProPress

      i've had the same debate with the stop/ no stop dimple with a viega rep from germany. i think it's bs too.

      especially on the smaller couplings costing 2x the price of a stop coupling.

      let them fall off the belt before they go to the dimple machine and sell them for the same. it's 1 less process that doesn't need to happen.

      the bigger xl / xlc couplings are the same price

      rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • Re: ProPress

        Stolen

        "15 calls a week, they are 80% sewer stoppages and the rest estimates.
        I stand by the "it's too expensive" argument, and that argument alone. Great tool, just a little expensive for me right now."

        I agree with you 100%. The Propress is not for you, at this time based on what you wrote.

        Comment


        • Re: ProPress

          I did pipe fitting on 3", 4", and 6" copper on a daily basics when I worked for a mechanical company. For 18 months I had green hand from soldering 3"-6" copper for 10 hour days. We had a contract doing repairs on piping on a large University(Texas A&M). We had a CT-400, but we used the jet sweat more than the propress. Maybe it came down to cost(I was an employee, not the boss). No valve shut off the coming water completely so we had to solder on a full port ball valve with the jet sweat before we could make are repairs.

          The Propress came in handy, but saying that some can't work on 4" copper with out one is false. It does make things easier and faster.
          Last edited by Will Rogers Plumbing; 08-16-2011, 08:01 AM.
          Will Rogers Plumbing
          Moore, Oklahoma
          (
          405) 323-2852

          "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

          "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



          www.willrogersplumbing.com
          http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

          "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

          Comment


          • Re: ProPress

            You guys talk like 4" copper can't be repaired by soldering. TM is right. Where did you get the 4" valve to start with and besides that how many of you are stocking 4" pro-press fittings, not to mention a set of 4" jaws for the machine? I guarantee that I could have made the same repair by swetting and it would not have taken a whole lot longer. I just don't get this whole mentalitity. What ever did you guys do before Pro-Press, shark bites, AAV's, Pex and all that other crap. Doesn't anyone know how to plumb anymore?
            sigpic

            Comment


            • Re: ProPress

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              You guys talk like 4" copper can't be repaired by soldering. TM is right. Where did you get the 4" valve to start with and besides that how many of you are stocking 4" pro-press fittings, not to mention a set of 4" jaws for the machine? I guarantee that I could have made the same repair by swetting and it would not have taken a whole lot longer. I just don't get this whole mentalitity. What ever did you guys do before Pro-Press, shark bites, AAV's, Pex and all that other crap. Doesn't anyone know how to plumb anymore?
              It can be soldered with ease with my A-32 tip. Either your responding to other posters or misread my post. I can solder 4" copper all day long. That is what I did for 18 months straight. Probably 20+ joints a day on 4" copper for 18 months.

              TM,

              What type of brazing rod are you using on water pipe? (Under slab repair)
              Will Rogers Plumbing
              Moore, Oklahoma
              (
              405) 323-2852

              "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

              "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



              www.willrogersplumbing.com
              http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

              "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

              Comment


              • Re: ProPress

                I was responding to others yes.

                Had a chance to bid copper from 1/2 through 4" for a company that built a manufacturing plant here. I priced the job both ways and no matter how I figured it, swetting came out miles less expensive, especially for the 4" main. You can pay 3 apprentices for an hour for the cost of a single 3" elbow. Besides that, the engineers would not sign off on Pro-Press either without having to wait another 3 months which the company did not want to do. This whole argument is rediculous. All anybody has to do ( but won't ) is to price out an entire job using both methods and then be HONEST about the time factor. Like I said before, on an average residential job we are talking maybe 4 hours time saved and when you back out the cost of the fitting and tool the numbers just don't add up. For those that have the tool and the fittings, by all means enjoy it but there is now way in hell that you can justify it's cost over the long haul. I have read all your tales of amazing repairs but so far non of them are beyond the capabilities of a skilled plumber and a torch at 1/3 the cost.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • Re: ProPress

                  Originally posted by Will Rogers Plumbing View Post
                  I did pipe fitting on 3", 4", and 6" copper on a daily basics when I worked for a mechanical company. For 18 months I had green hand from soldering 3"-6" copper for 10 hour days. We had a contract doing repairs on piping on a large University(Texas A&M). We had a CT-400, but we used the jet sweat more than the propress. Maybe it came down to cost(I was an employee, not the boss). No valve shut off the coming water completely so we had to solder on a full port ball valve with the jet sweat before we could make are repairs.

                  The Propress came in handy, but saying that some can't work on 4" copper with out one is false. It does make things easier and faster.
                  so now that propress is around and you're the boss, would you shut down the system for hours to drain, buy a 4'' valve $$$ and solder?

                  or buy a 4'' propress coupling to make the final connection in 5 seconds?

                  sounds like the valve was a necessity as you needed a jet sweat.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • Re: ProPress

                    please tell me what brand of miracle flux you guys use to solder when water is present?

                    i would love to buy that stuff.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • Re: ProPress

                      Now that I'm the boss(even when I wasn't) I could see the advantage of having a propress. That's why I posted the thread to read others opinions. IMO they are a waste(well maybe not a waste, but overkill) in new construction, but in repairs is where the propress shines. Odd how most people think propress is only for commercial new construction guys. I think they are for repairs to shorten shut downs or make repairs easier for when continuously running water is in the line.
                      Will Rogers Plumbing
                      Moore, Oklahoma
                      (
                      405) 323-2852

                      "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

                      "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



                      www.willrogersplumbing.com
                      http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

                      "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

                      Comment


                      • Re: ProPress

                        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                        please tell me what brand of miracle flux you guys use to solder when water is present?

                        i would love to buy that stuff.

                        rick.
                        There is no such thing. I use Nokorode and always will.
                        Will Rogers Plumbing
                        Moore, Oklahoma
                        (
                        405) 323-2852

                        "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

                        "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



                        www.willrogersplumbing.com
                        http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

                        "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

                        Comment


                        • Re: ProPress

                          I should edit one of my posts. I just looked up the price of a 4" copper pro-press elbow. You can pay 11 apprentices @ 15 bucks an hour and have money left for coffee and a muffin

                          To be fair though a 4" swett elbow can be had for a mere 4 apprentices

                          A new Pro-Press, with all the jaws through 4" is going to run 3 grand or so.
                          How many torches, rolls of solder, cans of flux, rolls of sand cloth, flux brushes and cleaning brushes will 3 grand buy?


                          We should break down how many weeks a 15 dollar an hour apprentice can work for the price of a Pro-Press

                          hintit's about 5 weeks or 200 man hours)

                          And Rick has what, 9 of these things. That's about 12 grand.

                          Isn't that how you guys look at the cost of things?..................... I do
                          Last edited by NHMaster3015; 08-16-2011, 02:12 PM. Reason: I keep finding reasons why propress is a waste of money
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Re: ProPress

                            I LOVE MY PROPRESS! Now that I've used it for two years I would never go back to the old ways. I've moved on to a higher plane. Now I'm on a quest for a larger unit, my quest shall be fulfilled very soon, for a mere $2,345.00, ,,, I do use mine almost every day for service. I almost feel ashamed for charging what I do, it's soooooo fast, and soooooo easy! That's ok, I've paid my dues. I DESERVE THIS! I don't know what some folks are complaining about, paid for mine on the very first job with it, and regarding fittings.... I don't pay for them. My customers do.

                            Comment


                            • Re: ProPress

                              Okay, I'm gonna wear out what is left of this stick, on what is left of that horse...

                              Having or not a press tool, has neither gained or lost me jobs. To say you are getting my jobs because you have one is silly.

                              Now, I can't speak for other regions of the country, but around these parts price is what sells a job. Mainly.

                              If you were so inclined, honestly price a repipe overhead. Price it with pex, solder, and propress, so 3 different bids. Of course pex will require a little solder, and press a little solder, but soldering requires neither of the others. So just humor me.

                              You have 3 different bids. Pex will flat out be the cheapest, followed by solder, followed by press.

                              Pex will also be easier. Than all of them.

                              My point is, that just the cost of fittings for the propress may well be what pex T&M actually cost you. Propress fittings are outrageous compared to most anything else. And the bigger you go, the more expensive it gets. How much was a propress 4 inch ball valve? And let's just say you go to a business that just wants 1 4 inch ball valve installed. Nothing else.

                              Weird scenario I know, but bear with me. I'll give you press guys the benefit of the doubt. Water is dripping. but the meter is new and easily accessible. Easily detached from the building line.

                              Now How much was that 4 inch press valve? Compared to a 4 inch swet valve? And how much faster will it be for propress? About a hour faster at best.

                              You probably run a minimum charge, like 135 per hour plus parts for easy stuff.

                              T&M for solder will be what?
                              T&M for press will be what?

                              Just price checked 4 inch ball valve at fergusons

                              swet valve 384.28
                              press valve 664.17

                              While these are big fittings, and a wild scenario tailored to prove my point! Bear with me.

                              Propress plus 1 hour labor will cost them 799.17. Basic service call figured in at 135/hourly.
                              Swet valve plus TWO hours labor 654.28.

                              That is 144.89 dollars difference, and we all know it could be done in a hour. So I am giving you more of the benefit of the doubt than you deserve.

                              Merely based upon price, who are they going to pick? Then once they see how fast it was for you, how in the hell are you going to convince any sane person that your job that cost them at bare minimum 144 dollars more and only took 5 seconds, is better? We all know it's a damn solid valve, but you also know that is a very very uphill battle to try to win.

                              Now let us take this 4 inch ball valve to a larger scale, and this one is gonna be a bit sillier.

                              You are called out to a high rise that has 4 inch copper going up 30 floors. They want a ball valve at each floor.
                              So 30 ball valves, and that is all you are contracted to do.
                              That is 11,528.40 for the swet valves
                              And 19,925.10 in propress.

                              I'll stop there, it's already clear who will get THAT job. And if the whole building was all propress VS solder.... I can only imagine what the price of fittings would cost.

                              Yes, propress is FASTER, but as already stated in a previous post of mine, that is ALL it is. I like things easier too. My customers get pissed at me though when I make it look easy. And taking a little longer, and charging them less to solder on some fittings, I win both ways.

                              But Will, please buy one and let us know if it was worth it for you. And be honest. Will it be great? Most likely, but trust me, you may very well get one and really really regret it. Heck see if my old boss will let you rent one of his for a month or so. That way you can try it out. You just may find that it was not worth all the money it cost you. BTW locke off penn actually has a good selection of press fittings, but 39th does not...
                              Last edited by stolen; 08-16-2011, 04:49 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: ProPress

                                It's okay to disagree but let's give each other the respect to have their own opinions.

                                Mark
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X