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WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

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  • #16
    Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

    Originally posted by Watersurgeon View Post
    Sorry I did not see this post until today, JC.

    Who did the initial testing to come up with the results you posted. State/County, Independent Lab, or a sales rep for a water treatment company? Regarding the Iron, what type of iron is it? example:




    Five basic types of potable Iron:
    1. Sequestered Iron
    2. Heme iron - Iron Found in organics
    3. Iron Bacteria
    4. Ferric Iron - Red water iron
    5. Ferrous Iron - Clear water Iron
    The iron concentrations are what is alarming, and not knowing what type of Iron it is makes it hard to specify the type of treatment.

    KDF85, sounds like a good canidate if the concentration levels are as high as you posted.

    My recommendation is to find an independent lab that specializes in well water testing, generally one that is certified in your state to perform and certify the testing. The cost is roughly around 250-400, and will provide a complete listing of all contaminants.
    If you have more detailed questions PM me.

    Additional questions on the house.

    What is the fixture count on the house? How many tubs? Do they have a large jacuzzi or roman style tub in the master? Standard shower in the master or custom with multiple heads, etc.. Flow restrictors present in the shower heads or have they been removed?

    Is the iron issue a problem in the house only or is it a problem with the landscape, ie: stained concrete walkways, driveway, etc.... Issues with iron fouled landscaping?

    If the iron is an issue with the landscaping, what are the gpm usage for landscape, and daily water consumption that would need to be treated?
    The test was done by the County/State health department.

    There is no type of iron listed. Test method is not listed either. Iron bacteria was speciically tested and according to them not present.

    In a previous test by Lancaster a test method labeled HACH-8008 was used. It gave a result at that time of 3.2 ppm for Iron.

    Typical house fixtures I guess:

    Kitchen-1
    Master Bath-5 (One Garden Tub, Standard Shower)
    Second Bath-3 (Tub Shower)
    Washer-1
    Water Heater-1

    Let's say 11 fixtures.

    4 people living there. 2 adults, 1 teenager, 1 about 11 years old.

    I have a listing of about 20 different things on the "Inorganic Metals Profile" I can list if necessary. I only listed the parts I thought some might need. i.e. Iron, Magnesium, PH, etc.

    And what's a KDF85? Maintenance on it?

    Thanks.


    J.C.
    Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 09-20-2011, 09:47 PM.

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    • #17
      Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing
      Almost forgot. I have a listing from the County of a table called "Inorganic Metals Profile". About 20 total items on it. I can type it out if necessary. J.C.
      Yes that would be helpful.

      Also the answer to my question on the landscape. Do they have issues with the discoloration from the iron on the property, and or do they have problems with the landscape in general because of the high iron concentrations.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

        Originally posted by Watersurgeon View Post
        Yes that would be helpful.

        Also the answer to my question on the landscape. Do they have issues with the discoloration from the iron on the property, and or do they have problems with the landscape in general because of the high iron concentrations.
        Sorry forgot that. There is zero issues with landscaping. No irrigation system (sprinklers) at all.

        Give me a minute or two as I have to type out the results. It's in a .pdf that I can't copy and paste.

        Thanks.


        J.C.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

          Arsenic <.005 mg/l

          Barium <.1 mg/l

          Cadmium <.001 mg/l

          Calcium 10 mg/l

          Chloride <5.00 mg/l

          Chromium <.01 mg/l

          Copper <.05 mg/l

          Fluoride <.20 mg/l

          Iron 6.20 mg/l

          Lead <.005 mg/l

          Magnesium 5 mg/l

          Manganese .04 mg/l

          Mercury <.0005 mg/l

          pH 6.4

          Selenium <.005 mg/l

          Silver <.05 mg/l

          Sulfate <5.00 mg/l

          Total Alkalinity 53 mg/l

          Total Hardness 46 mg/l

          Zinc .14 mg/l


          (The < symbol is how it is listed on the report. So that is how I listed it here.)


          Total Coliform, Colisure- Absent

          E-Coli, Colisure- Absent

          Iron Bacteria- Not Found



          Thanks.


          J.C.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

            Bump to the top.

            Thanks.


            J.C.

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            • #21
              Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

              JC I will try and get back to you with the calculations in the next day or so. I am waiting on my KDF rep to verify a forumula for me, base on the Iron numbers.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

                Thanks for all your input. I do get the impression that you, Speedbump, and others can figure out most anything with getting the water chemistry a customer wants for their purpose.

                Here there are almost no "water experts" that are consistent and/or can be trusted in my opinion. I make a good amount of effort to learn as much as I can but still feel pretty ignorant.

                I've also submitted the State test to Lancaster for their recommendations. I'll post whatever they recommend for you to review the equipment available to me. Just want to do the best I can for the customer, give them the lowest maintenance, and have no callbacks.


                J.C.
                Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 09-20-2011, 09:45 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

                  Hey Water Surgeon, does the KDF85 work good with a low PH? I know MTM doesn't nor did Greensand. I've never used the KDF85 and I believe they make other products as well, but are rather expensive. If it works on low PH it would be worth the extra expense though. I would have a few applications in my area where the iron is high and PH low.
                  Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

                    JC, I am still waiting on an answer to my questions for you. Apparently my contact was out of town and just got my request this afternoon. I should have an answer early next week. Sorry for the delay.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

                      I don't do a lot with KDF because of the cost associated with the large scale projects I work on. Asking for its capability in Low Ph is difficult without knowing the complete gambit of factors in the pre-treatment water.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

                        Thanks. I understand the priorities of everyone. I'm waiting to hear from Lancaster as well.

                        Again, appreciate the help.


                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

                          Reminder of customer problem and water analysis. Customer complaint is basically "orangey" water.

                          Arsenic <.005 mg/l

                          Barium <.1 mg/l

                          Cadmium <.001 mg/l

                          Calcium 10 mg/l

                          Chloride <5.00 mg/l

                          Chromium <.01 mg/l

                          Copper <.05 mg/l

                          Fluoride <.20 mg/l

                          Iron 6.20 mg/l

                          Lead <.005 mg/l

                          Magnesium 5 mg/l

                          Manganese .04 mg/l

                          Mercury <.0005 mg/l

                          pH 6.4

                          Selenium <.005 mg/l

                          Silver <.05 mg/l

                          Sulfate <5.00 mg/l

                          Total Alkalinity 53 mg/l

                          Total Hardness 46 mg/l

                          Zinc .14 mg/l

                          (The < symbol is how it is listed on the report. So that is how I listed it here.)


                          Total Coliform, Colisure- Absent

                          E-Coli, Colisure- Absent

                          Iron Bacteria- Not Found



                          Lancaster has recommended:

                          1-Chemical Feed Pump

                          1-50lb. Soda Ash (Starter for system-Consumable that must be replaced periodically.)

                          1-Bleach (Non-Specific Mixture/Quantity Yet-Consumable that must be replaced periodically.)

                          1-Chemical Solution Tank

                          1-120 Gallon Retention Tank with bypass

                          1-24,000 Grain Carbon Filter

                          1-24,000 Grain Iron Softener-3 bags Iron Pellets (Starter for system-Consumable that must be replaced periodically.)



                          Thanks for any input.


                          J.C.
                          Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 09-27-2011, 02:38 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

                            I like everything except for the chlorination which I can only assume they are recommending because they think there is IRB present though you say not. The well is a mess if you want the truth and will require massive treatment which naturally means lots of money and even more maintenance. I think I might have gone with a larger softener also say 36,0000 grain as it will pull more iron. Even so, make sure you have them periodically add Iron out or similar product to the brine tank and back to back regen the softener. We get well similar to this all the time. For the record, Lancaster has been making pumps for longer than I can remember, and treatment equipment for at least 30 years because I used to be a Lancaster dealer. They pretty much used 3rd party tanks and Fleck heads and put their name on it. Which is what most equipment dealers do even now. Do NOT let anyone talk you into anything using an air injector and settling tank because with that much iron the pipe between the injector and the tank will plug up twice a year.
                            sigpic

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                            • #29
                              Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

                              The well is a mess if you want the truth and will require massive treatment which naturally means lots of money and even more maintenance. I think I might have gone with a larger softener also say 36,0000 grain as it will pull more iron.
                              I agree, your going to have a water plant there by the time your done. I wouldn't use a softener for that much iron though. I would have an iron filter instead. But that's what the soda ash is for I believe. Soda ash is supposed to work better with a low PH than greensand or MTM. I have never used soda ash, but I think the feeder is to inject the ash into the water stream. You might ask them if that's what they are doing.

                              A softener shouldn't be needed as your water is only two grains hard.
                              Frequently asked questions about pumps and tanks.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: WaterSurgeon, Speedbump, NH, Anyone-Water Treatment

                                Originally posted by speedbump View Post
                                I agree, your going to have a water plant there by the time your done. I wouldn't use a softener for that much iron though. I would have an iron filter instead. But that's what the soda ash is for I believe. Soda ash is supposed to work better with a low PH than greensand or MTM. I have never used soda ash, but I think the feeder is to inject the ash into the water stream. You might ask them if that's what they are doing.

                                A softener shouldn't be needed as your water is only two grains hard.
                                They have mentioned to me that the softener is optional. They recommended it as a way to cover their azz at the end system. I'll want to recommend it as well 'cause I don't want any callbacks. Thinking....

                                You are correct as to using soda ash injection. Soda ash/bleach to holding tank to 24,000 grain Carbon Filter (Iron Filter? It does backwash.), final through softener.

                                Thanks for the input.


                                J.C.

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