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  • #16
    Re: moen facet

    Rick, Im very seriouse. Maybee plumbing culture is different here. My customers want a one time permanent fix, with no maybees involved. If we rebuild and theres a body warpage or a hair line crack and you cant se this with the nacked eye and it continues to drip or the drip reoccures in the near future, then customers want it all for free. Customers have very little understanding for anything but perfection the first time. I have found to deliver the expectation I must be 100% sure that the proposal will completely satisfy the customer. Also theres more percieved value to the customer when they get a new fixture. Our repeat customer rate is 71%. Im told the industry average is around 30%

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    • #17
      Re: moen facet

      OMoney in jetting recently i have Lost my faith in some of the new faucets iv had maybe one call back on any service toilets faucets ect that iv "repaired" actually call that fixed. If everytime i had a call about a faulty oring or a ball cock or leaking hose bib i made them replace it id be out of busisness. How can you expect to get new houses or renos or even a hot water tank, if the customer gets told oh no you cant fix that 400 single lever kitchen faucet i installed two years ago. If you cant fix a leaking faucet how do you expect them to trust you to plumb there house? I m not really taking you serious you cant be. Are you a licenced plumber or do you just replace faucets and jet drains.. not trying to offend you but i know handymen that are confident at fixing taps and faucets... Hairline cracks usually only occur after the guy that replaced the guts overtightened the replacements, anyway i guess if it works for you great...but thats why were considered consumers in north america... Thanks seanny

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      • #18
        Re: moen facet

        Originally posted by money in jetting View Post
        Rick, Im very seriouse. Maybee plumbing culture is different here. My customers want a one time permanent fix, with no maybees involved. If we rebuild and theres a body warpage or a hair line crack and you cant se this with the nacked eye and it continues to drip or the drip reoccures in the near future, then customers want it all for free. Customers have very little understanding for anything but perfection the first time. I have found to deliver the expectation I must be 100% sure that the proposal will completely satisfy the customer. Also theres more percieved value to the customer when they get a new fixture. Our repeat customer rate is 71%. Im told the industry average is around 30%
        in 37 years of plumbing both new construction and service work. i can tell you that fixtures that are defective are the new fixtures from the factory. not the ones that have worked for years and then been serviced.

        of the 100,000 plus fixtures i've installed, there was probably less than 1% defective from the factory.

        of the 10,000 plus fixtures i've serviced, there is less than a 1% callback rate.

        either you need to retrain your service guys, or you need to rethink your logic.

        ps. no advertising and a 99% customer loyalty without spending a cent.

        i must not be the average.

        rick.
        phoebe it is

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        • #19
          Re: moen facet

          Rick some quick math and statistical analysis shows us your 10,000 number and or 99% number are flawed. Moens statistical failure rate alone would have you running 3 guys full time performing service on all those valves. I get what your saying, but let me share my experience with you. I ran a 7 million/year service dept. We charged fairly high rates When you charge top notch and customers expect top notch and if a valve leaks again 8 months later that customer isnt afraid of imposing on us to fix it for free. I believe that you do have a high return customer rate but I also believe that you have far more failed repairs than you realize. Nice guys get repeat customers, nice customers dont impose on nice guys for repeat repairs they put up with the issue or they call someone else. We dont tell lie to a customer and tell them there only option is replacement, we also dont lie and say this repair is 100% guaranteed to fix your problem permanently. We steer the customer towards the 100% resolution to the problem. Everybody wins by takeing this approach.

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          • #20
            Re: moen facet

            Originally posted by money in jetting View Post
            Rick some quick math and statistical analysis shows us your 10,000 number and or 99% number are flawed. Moens statistical failure rate alone would have you running 3 guys full time performing service on all those valves. I get what your saying, but let me share my experience with you. I ran a 7 million/year service dept. We charged fairly high rates When you charge top notch and customers expect top notch and if a valve leaks again 8 months later that customer isnt afraid of imposing on us to fix it for free. I believe that you do have a high return customer rate but I also believe that you have far more failed repairs than you realize. Nice guys get repeat customers, nice customers dont impose on nice guys for repeat repairs they put up with the issue or they call someone else. We dont tell lie to a customer and tell them there only option is replacement, we also dont lie and say this repair is 100% guaranteed to fix your problem permanently. We steer the customer towards the 100% resolution to the problem. Everybody wins by takeing this approach.
            there is no 100% guarantee to fix your problem permanently. so even if you replace the faucet and it leaks 5 years down the road, it still leaked.

            so next time your service truck gets a flat or runs low on air, i really hope the mechanic sells you a new truck.

            your 7 million a year service is a scam if you don't really service fixtures. what exactly do you service and not replace?

            please explain how you sell someone a $400. kitchen sink faucet every time it drips?

            i know i'm not the only one scratching my head at this point.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

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            • #21
              Re: moen facet

              We steer our customers toward that new faucet everytime. If the customer inquires about repairing the old, that is a service that we do but we tell the customer all the details about the limits of that option and lack of complete knowing that that will permanently sole the issue. The same principles apply to a different situation. What if some glass has been grinding away in a disposal and it finaly jammed. Which way do you steer your customer? grind head damage/wear has occured. Do you hope and wait for the clogged drain call from the customer or do you propose replacing the disposal again for a 100% remedy.

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              • #22
                Re: moen facet

                Man...how did I miss this thread? lol

                The only faucet I've had problems repairing due to warping were Delt Lav faucets. I've installed all new repair parts before...and the faucet still kept dripping. This only has happened in 1 area around me cause of the water quality though.

                Other than that, I try to repair first before replace if it makes logical sense for the customer and me.

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                • #23
                  Re: moen facet

                  Just a friendly question. Do you tell the customers you cant see brass valve body wear with the eye, micro etching from particulate, hairline crack in the back of the barrel, minor pitting of the brass, obstruction of the internal water way. If not then my opinion is that your not telling the customer everything they need to know to make an informed dission. That leaky faucet will often times cause mineral etching on the fixture surface.

                  My main questions is "what about disposals?????

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                  • #24
                    Re: moen facet

                    Originally posted by money in jetting View Post
                    Just a friendly question. Do you tell the customers you cant see brass valve body wear with the eye, micro etching from particulate, hairline crack in the back of the barrel, minor pitting of the brass, obstruction of the internal water way. If not then my opinion is that your not telling the customer everything they need to know to make an informed dission. That leaky faucet will often times cause mineral etching on the fixture surface.

                    My main questions is "what about disposals?????
                    I think you're taking things to the extreme here a little bit. Faucets are not made for the sole reason of being disposable. Everything you mention falls squarely on the manufacture now with lifetime warranties, so it's up to them to stand behind the products they make...not the Plumber. I let the manufacture determine if I need a new faucet if my attempt to repair it fails. Water quality is the most important issue when it comes to our Plumbing, and you should know that.

                    Water Quality and the need for a water softener and filter is well established with my customers from the beginning, so that would take care of the pitting issues and obstruction of the internal water way. If the faucet was pitted straight out of the box, it's the manufactures fault...not the customers. I have yet to see a hairline crack in any faucet that I ever installed, and no matter how you twist it into your favor, water under pressure with a hairline crack will show signs of leakage. I can only suggest things to my customers as I'm not in the business of putting them in catastrophic fear in where they need to drain their bank account because they have a dripping faucet.

                    I will agree with you that water and metal don't mix and a faucet can warp cause I've experienced it. But that's more of a water quality issue and it can be treated to fix the problem to protect anything else in the future.

                    But if your car develops and oil leak, you sure as heck don't throw it away and buy another one...you get it fixed.

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                    • #25
                      Re: moen facet

                      Originally posted by money in jetting View Post
                      We steer our customers toward that new faucet everytime. If the customer inquires about repairing the old, that is a service that we do but we tell the customer all the details about the limits of that option and lack of complete knowing that that will permanently sole the issue. The same principles apply to a different situation. What if some glass has been grinding away in a disposal and it finaly jammed. Which way do you steer your customer? grind head damage/wear has occured. Do you hope and wait for the clogged drain call from the customer or do you propose replacing the disposal again for a 100% remedy.
                      i can see where this is going, so i'm going to cut to the chase.

                      you're a flat rate company and the techs are on a commission.

                      the more they sell, the more they make.

                      no need to tell you where i stand with your disposal comment.

                      all i can say is i'm a plumber/ contractor and you're a salesman.

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

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                      • #26
                        Re: moen facet

                        I like the 7 million idea and that's why I'm going balls to the wall right now with advertising and marketing! I'm not in this business to be nice to anyone, I'm in it for one simple reason and that's to make as much money as I can. When I'm gone none of my customers are going to give a rats azz and will move on to the next plumber anyway so who cares. Good for you buddy, make as much money as you can while you can!

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                        • #27
                          Re: moen facet

                          I leave the upselling and salesman speals for used car dealers and tv infocommercials I'm not a plumber cause I want to relocate every year overcharge and create fear in old elxerly couples that think a proffesional will tell them what really needs to be done. I'm not trying to get rich, I want to EARN a good living and be able to pay my houses off and send my kids to collage and continue to live were I enjoy living. This threads is just bugging me and I just can't imagine money in jetting working for my grandparents id probally have a real bad conversation with his company when they replaced all there faucets in there house from micro etching from partiiculatite or minor pitting or any other bull ship excuses / sales pitch. Money in jetting go to school get a contiouness and stop bs and talking customers into spending money on crap they dont need to spend money on. Seanny

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                          • #28
                            Re: moen facet

                            That may be how some plumbers do it but not me. I don't tell my customers each and every time something has to be replaced or it can't be fixed. I GIVE THEM OPTIONS. Option number one: Fix it (maybe with no warranty) Option number two: Replace it with a full warranty. It's all about options, I let the customers decide. No high pressure sales from me.
                            Sorry but I'm in "business" to make money. I don't do this to just "get by". I'll do the very best I can to achieve goals and to make money.
                            I have a brand new marketing strategy happening with new yellow page ads, looks like it's going to be internet too and cell phone advertising. Going all out to build a larger stronger business in my area. Better things ahead for myself and my family. I got a little lazy the last few years and didn't make things happen like I should have, that's about to change.

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                            • #29
                              Re: moen facet

                              Listen, I think you guys are assuming the worst of me and my intentions. Im not a salesman im an *** coverer and ive found a way to do that with honesty and it makes more money. I had many faucet rebuilds go bad over the years and got tired of doing stuff for free. A disposal grinds a bottle top and jams, so I unjam it, then the drain pluggs up a week latter. You all know this type of customer, it must be my fault the drain plugged a week latter. My mistake, I suggest that the disposal is not grinding properly, customer says why didnt you tell us we should replace it instead of unjamming it for a trip fee and 1 hour minimum charge. Your are f'd if you dont steer the customer toward the guaranteed fix, and if you do then your a sleezy salesman????? Is there no middle ground for? Oh by the way you guys will realy think im an "a" hole when I tell you I also do a free water quality test to see if I can recommend some form of treatment. Whats so shady about being thourough and complete. Is it that completeness tends to make more money, so its assumed that one only cares about the money above honesty.. Hey Iron ranger, go for it.. There is lots of help networks out there. google Frank Blau. I view these networks/systems like a super power, you can use them for good or bad. Some companies do use them for bad, but most use them for good. One thing is consistent you will make money! These systems are expensive to learn, and I have recieved training in a couple of them. Iron ranger want to know more?

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                              • #30
                                Re: moen facet

                                Originally posted by money in jetting View Post
                                In the old days faucets were made differently/better, and as such rebuilding was a good thing. Now you have to determine if theres any warpage of the valve body, pitting of the brass, scaring of the brass, hair line cracking. These are all issues that as plumbers we are not addequately equiped to diagnose, a machineist is. As a service manager I have directed my guys to replace faucets not rebuild them. We cant 100% guarantee that rebuilding will solve a leaky/drippy faucet isue, even though it commonly does. I have found that about 1 out of 10 rebuilds is a failure, either instantly or shortly in the future. If you rebuild and it doesnt work out guess who gets there name smeered all over the internet. As a professional I dont think we should recommend a rebuild to or customers unless we are equiped to tell them with 100% certanty that there issue will be solved permanently. Whats your thoughts???????????????????
                                Perhaps the problem is your plumbers and not the customers faucets. If you are fixing faucets and they are leaking enough to get your name all over the Internet you are using the wrong "plumbers". Are you using licensed Journeyman or "Service Techs"?

                                Mark
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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